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Happy New Year Middle Class: The Fiscal Cliff Is Going To Rip You To Shreds

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Happy New Year Middle Class - The Fiscal Cliff Is Going To Rip You To ShredsThe middle class has quite a gift welcoming them as the calendar flips over to 2013.  Their payroll taxes are going to go up, their income taxes are going to go up, and approximately 28 million households are going to be hit with a huge, unexpected AMT tax bill on their 2012 earnings.  So happy New Year middle class!  You are about to be ripped to shreds.  In addition to the tax increases that I just mentioned, approximately two million unemployed Americans will instantly lose their extended unemployment benefits when 2013 begins, and new Obamacare tax hikes which will cost American taxpayers about a trillion dollars over the next decade will start to go into effect.  If Congress is not able to come to some sort of a deal, all middle class families in America will be sending thousands more dollars to Uncle Sam next year than they were previously.  And considering the fact that the middle class is already steadily shrinking and that the U.S. economy is already in an advanced state of decline, that is not good news.  You would think that both major political parties would want to do something to keep the middle class from being hit with this kind of tax sledgehammer.  Unfortunately, at this point it appears that our “leaders” in Washington D.C. are incapable of getting anything done.  So get ready for much smaller paychecks and much larger tax bills.  What is coming is not going to be pleasant.

So what happened?

Weren’t the tax increases only supposed to be for the wealthy?

Well, that is what the politicians always promise, but it is always the middle class that ends up getting hit the hardest.

In this day and age, the big corporations and the ultra-wealthy are absolute masters at avoiding taxes.

For example, Facebook paid approximately $4.64 million in taxes on their entire foreign profits of $1.344 billion for 2011.

That comes out to a tax rate of about 0.3 percent.

Overall, the global elite have approximately 18 trillion dollars parked in offshore tax havens such as the Cayman Islands.

Keep in mind that U.S. GDP for 2011 was only slightly above 15 trillion dollars.

So the global elite have an amount of money parked in offshore banks that is substantially larger than the total value of all goods and services produced in the United States each year.

According to one estimate, a third of all the wealth in the entire world is stationed in offshore banks.  Our politicians are playing checkers and the global elite are playing chess when it comes to taxes.  Our current system of taxation is irreversibly broken and should be entirely thrown out and replaced with something else.

And of course under our current system those that are poor don’t pay much in taxes because they are just trying to survive.

So who always ends up getting the painful end of the hammer?

The middle class does, and that really stinks.

Let us hope and pray that our politicians can come together and do something for the middle class.  In particular, we should all be screaming and yelling at our politicians about the Alternative Minimum Tax.  It was originally designed as a method to “tax the rich”, but unless Congress does something the middle class is about to be ripped to shreds by it.  The following is from a recent CNBC article about the AMT…

In a cruel epilogue to 2012, roughly 28 million families would owe the IRS $86 billion more than they anticipated for this year should the country plunge off the cliff, according to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center.

Those families would face the “Alternative Minimum Tax,” which was introduced in 1969 to supposedly guarantee that wealthy Americans could not elude the taxman. But the AMT not only flopped, it was never indexed to inflation. So with each passing year, it seeps away from high society and into the wallets of Target and Wal-Mart shoppers. That sets up a disaster for April 15.

So how much money are we talking about?

According to that same article, many families are about to be socked by tax bills that will be absolutely huge…

On the whole, 98 percent of those with incomes between $200,000 to $500,000 would pay an additional $11,000 in AMT this year, according to the center’s estimates. About 88 percent of those with incomes of $100,000 to $200,000 would need to fork over another $3100, and even the majority of Americans with earnings between $75,000 and $100,000 would have an AMT liability.

Most of the tax increases that will be coming as a result of the fiscal cliff will be for 2013 earnings, but the AMT tax hike will apply to 2012 earnings.  So if you end up falling under the AMT, you better get ready to write a very large check to Uncle Sam in just a couple of months.

And the AMT is only just one of the very painful tax increases that American families will be facing.  If no deal is reached in Congress, every single middle class American taxpayer will be dealing with significantly higher taxes.

A recent ABC News report entitled “Fiscal Cliff: By The Numbers” detailed some of the other tax increases that you can expect in 2013…

So why don’t our politicians do something about all of this?

What are they fighting so bitterly about anyway?

Sadly, neither side is actually serious about substantially reducing the size of government deficits or about getting government spending under control.

During a recent interview on CNBC, Ron Paul explained that “they pretend they are fighting up there, but they really aren’t. They are arguing over power, spin, who looks good, who looks bad; all trying to preserve the system where they can spend what they want, take care of their friends and print money when they need it.”

Most in the mainstream media are making it sound like some kind of a “battle royal” is going on in Washington, but as Lou Dobbs recently pointed out, the U.S. national debt is going to end up in just about the same place no matter what happens.

According to Dobbs, if we “do nothing” the U.S. national debt will be approximately 25.8 trillion dollars in 2022.

If “Obama wins”, the U.S. national debt will be approximately 25.4 trillion dollars in 2022.

If “Boehner wins”, the U.S. national debt will be approximately 25.2 trillion dollars in 2022.

You can watch the entire analysis by Lou Dobbs right here

So they are putting all of us through all of this torture even though nothing will really change in the long run no matter who wins?

What kind of a circus is this?

Meanwhile, the reckless spending continues.

Barack Obama has just issued a new executive order that ends the pay freeze for federal workers that had been in place.

So now all federal employees will be getting a nice hefty pay raise.

For example, Vice President Joe Biden brought in $225,521 this year.

Next year, he will make $231,900.

Not that our politicians really need the money.  Most members of Congress are millionaires anyway.  But if they can get us to pay for it, they might as well go for it, eh?

There are now close to half a million federal employees that bring home at least $100,000 a year.  Plus, it is important to keep in mind that the benefits that federal employees get are absolutely outstanding, and it is close to impossible to actually fire a federal worker.

Life is good if you are working for Uncle Sam.

Meanwhile, our politicians seem determined to keep draining more blood out of the middle class.  Even if a “deal” is reached, we will still be hit by some categories of tax increases.  Let’s just hope and pray that we don’t get hit by all of the tax increases that are scheduled to go into effect.  That would be a financial disaster for millions of families.

So happy New Year middle class.  Your taxes are about to go through the roof and our politicians are too busy fighting with each other to do anything about it.

What else will 2013 bring?

Funny Baby

  • P.M

    Below was a remake I wrote of 12 days of Christmas.

    On the first day of Christmas my U.S government gave to me a free Obama phone!

    On the second of Christmas my U.S government gave to me a welfare check and a free Obama phone!

    On the third day of Christmas my U.S government gave to me food-stamps, a welfare check, and a
    free Obama phone!

    On the fourth day of Christmas my U.S government gave me higher taxes, more food stamps,
    another welfare check, and a free Obama phone!

    On the fifth day of Christmas my U.S government gave me QE4, higher taxes, more food stamps,
    a welfare check, and a fifth Obama phone!

    One the sixth day of Christmas my U.S government gave to me a student loan bubble,QE4in,
    government a taxin, another batch of food stamps, my welfare check, and a free Obama phone!

    On the seventh day of Christmas my U.S government gave to me a derivatives bubble,
    a student debt explodin, QE4in,higher taxin, food stamps, a welfare check I did not
    have to work for, and a free Obama phone!

    On the eighth day of Christmas my government gave to me $4 billion a day added to our national debt, derivatives a bubblin, a student debt explodin, QE4in,
    government a taxin, my entitlement to food stamps, a welfare check, and my eighth Obama phone!

    On the ninth day of Christmas my government gave to me a cooked BLS report, 4Bill in
    national debt, derivatives a bubblin, a student debt explodin, QE4in, government a taxin,
    food stamps, a welfare check, and a free Obama phone!

    On the tenth of Christmas my government gave to me QE5, a cooked BLS a cookin,4 Billion in national debt, derivatives a bubblin, student debt explodin, QE4in,higher taxes, my food stamps, a welfare check, and yet another Obama phone!

    On the eleventh day of Christmas my government gave to me a stock market crash, QE5in, BLS a cookin, National debt explodin, derivatives a bubblin, student debt a soarin,QE4in, government a taxin, my food stamps, my welfare check so I can
    inhale bath salts, and shiny new Obama phone that is free for me!

    On the twelfth day of Christmas my government gave to me an economic collapse,stockmarket a crashin, QE5in,BLS a cookin, National Debt explodin, derivatives a bubblin, student debt a soarin, government a taxin, food stamps so I can buy Santa some cookies,the welfare check, and my twelfth Obama phone!

  • Ralfine

    I’ve seen the future. And it aint pretty.
    Watch the movie “Idiocracy”.

    You’ll all be happy to live right now.

  • energizedmortal

    This is the last month I can pay for food and shelter unless I miraculously get living wages in January. I’ll be 27 and homeless in February 2013. Shelters are over crowded. Eating poisonous berries in the wild are the least of my worries. Can’t say you didn’t warn me Michael thank you for sharing.

    • K

      energizedmortal , do not give up. I know how crowded the shelters are. I help support two of the ones in my area. In spite of the numbers, they have not turned anyone away. Please talk to them, sometimes local employers are working with them. Give them a chance to help you.

    • Stu

      You do it the old way, by foot or car or bus…network through all those you know and accept ANY job that someone will pay you to do (that’s legal)

      There’s still a lot of work that needs to be done in this Country that employers will pay to have done…but it might be with your hands and not a mouse 😉

      Very best of Luck though…with determination and decent personal communication skills you’ll find something to a least start with and continue to look for better.

      You’ll make it if you don’t quit trying!


    • Mondobeyondo

      If you have a public library in your area with free computers and wi-fi/ Internet access, you can use that for your job search. Type in “job fairs in [my town/city]” in your favorite search engine Just keep plugging away..

      • 2Gary2

        conservatives are closing libraries.

    • Ralfine

      Well, in England Internet is free in public libraries. They are also heated. Jobless centers are heated, too.

      In Hong Kong, you have Internet terminals you can use for free in Subway stations.

  • Syrin



    Well, 75% of the COUNTRY DIDN’T VOTE FOR THIS IDIOT !! Throw in the 10 million + votes in voter fraud and it’s more like 80% of the country didn’t vote for this Naazzii.

    • Hammerstrike

      No, all they (Obamavoters) want is a free ride and the governement taking all responsability for their lives for them.

      • sharonsj

        Here we go again. Blame the poor, elderly and disabled while ignoring the companies making billions that pay no taxes. It also amazes me that you right-wingers have no clue how much of your taxpayer money is given to those companies or is used to make up for their theft.

        Take Hostess, for example, put into bankruptcy by vulture capitalists. They legally steal the workers’ pension fund–and you, dumb taxpayer, fund the government insurance that now repays the workers some of their lost retirement money.

        Vulture capitalists legally put Hostess into debt, used the money to pay themselves huge salaries and bonuses (probably stashed in the Cayman Islands where it can’t be taxed), and now the banks are left holding the bag. But the banks, which have legally used your savings deposits for bad loans, can get refunds from the federal insurance program that you, the stupid taxpayer, also fund.

        The fired workers (who can’t find new jobs because companies have relocated to China and legally gotten tax breaks for moving), will get all sorts of assistance and food stamps, paid for by you, the taxpayer. And the reason you will be footing most of the bill is that the average wage earner is taxed at 25-30% while

        vulture capitalists, if they pay any tax at all, pay 15% because the money is classified as capital gains.

        So if you don’t want to support your fellow Americans, you ought to be screaming about corporate welfare.

        • Mark

          I would scream about corporate welfare and trillions spent on welfare that has not changed the situation for them. They need to learn how to fish and not keep asking for a free fish every year. There are jobs out there that while they don’t pay a lot, at least it is a job and not a hand out. I don’t see why it is the taxpayers responsibility to cover theft of a pension plan. Instead, if you can prove it in court, the employees should sue and maybe the perps ought to go to jail.

        • Hammerstrike

          Always defending the welfare parasites in the name of how evil those corporations are. If you generalize corporations like that, why not generalize homosexuals as children rapists or blacks as rioters?
          But no, I support the Corporations that fails being left to rot, I support private interests being completely cut-off from the money supply.
          You are not poor, you are not disabled, you contribute to making their situation worst by defending the welfare parasites.
          The welfare parasites and dimocrate/leftist unwillingness to deal with them won the elections for Reagan, thanks a lot you ****holes!
          Nope, one union´s protest killed Hostess, don´t blame Bush or Romney for that one!

          • 2Gary2

            you are simply wrong. The executives killed hostess. As they were cutting employee pay they were giving themselves million dollar salaries and raises.

          • Hammerstrike

            Any links on that?

          • 2Gary2

            pls google–there are many good links that detail this.

        • 2Gary2

          excellent post!

      • 2Gary2

        again–false right wing bs.

    • bwoboe1

      It doesn’t matter! Obamney is in office either way. If you REALLY think there is a difference you are deluding yourself.

      We get the government we deserve being addicted to the infotainment industry and viewing everything as a superficial sporting event.

    • Mondobeyondo

      “It’s your money! You paid for it!”
      (George W. Bush, at a campaign rally in 2004)

      Oh, that’s classic! My favorite Bushism of all.

    • Ralfine

      75% DO NOT CARE.

      MAKE THEM.

    • Evelyn Isis Osiris Baha Allah

      TYRANNY …. When was the middle class ever not under the same oppressive government by one or more people who exercise absolute power cruelly and unjustly as the poor in this country … maybe the government is just no longer playing favorites …

      OPEN POVERTY … when did the middle class not rest upon the service of the lower classes ? … and when did the rich-elite not rest upon the service of the middle class? … and when did either not rest upon the slaves of those suffering in open poverty ? … open poverty isn’t new .. it’s just equally open to all now …

      NO RIGHTS … since the words plainly states that there would be no law to enforce the listed privilege of the constitution .. this illusion of rights seems to fade with the lack of money .. it seems that it was money that enforces rights and not justice …

      DECIMATED ECONOMY … this infliction on the economy which is seriously reducing the effectiveness of the system … began when the first ending year of the government’s budget did not balance out … musical chairs have just claimed their fall-guys …

      It seems the lower classes are waking up to hidden truths … when will the middle class ?

    • It’s not the government stupid. It is the Ruling Class/1% that tell the puppets what to do!

  • Mark

    Some good will come if a deal is not made. Extended unemployment benefits need to go away, A year or two is just collecting welfare. A friend of mine is collecting around $600 a week.That is too much and is not a lifeline. The payroll tax should never have been cut. You can cut it if you want to cut Social Security and that is not on the table. The Social Security takers complain if they get a small raise. Social Security and medicare are bloated government programs. Buying $6000.00 scooters that turn on a dime is something we taxpayers can’t afford. A wheel chair will get you around if you need one. Cost of a used wheelchair- 50 bucks.
    Hey Michael, why don’t you list out the type of tax system you think might work and be fair. Give us lots of details so that we can comment on them. Also list out the safety net you think we should pay for and how much military would be just right. Stir the pot a little and see what happens.

    • Hambone

      First of all — the termination of unemployment benefits. It sounds mean, but I agree with you. It’s not that I don’t care; we simply don’t have the money to give away.

      Unfortunately, that will lead to other bad things… rise in crime, etc.

      As far as what kind of tax system would be fair — a single tax would be my ideal. Ideally, it would be a consumption-based tax (sales tax) and nothing else. This would enable the most transparency, which is what we lack. The first video underscored this. We’re getting nickle and dimed to death.

      However, the best tax system can’t cure our ills. We have GOT to stop spending more than we bring in.

      • Mark

        I like a sales tax and how about tarriffs on imports as a start. Lets keep the ideas coming. We need to figure out how the super wealthy would pay sales tax on high priced items. They could buy them in another country to avoid the taxes here.

        • Ralfine

          In Europe you have a limit as to what you can buy abroad. If your imported goods are over the limit you pay tarriff plus VAT on that.

          If you want to address this problem with the wealthy, you need cooperation with other countries. And that is limited by your military.

      • Handog

        You two sound like the typical ” make the nessisary spending cuts” but don’t you dare touch my entitlements. Oh, but when you lose your job you will file for the unemployment insurance you’ve been paying into.

        It’s not mean. We just won’t have your SS when you retire. It’s been pissed away.

        I just read Queen Obama just dropped a cool million taking the kids to Hawaii.

        • Mark

          I don’t have a problem with 12 weeks of unemployment while you are looking for another job. If you were to read, there is no such thing as MY social security.

          • Handog

            The median duration of unemployment was 21 weeks or about five months as of December. That means half of all unemployed workers had been without a job for more than five months.

            So eight million of them should be put out on the street. Meanwhile White House sources today claimed that the First Lady has spent $10million of U.S. taxpayers’ money on vacations alone in the past year.
            Don’t get me started on foreign aid.

            I understand the SS is a tax. Do you think peaple are just going to shrug their shoulders if/when they fille for it.
            Look at Greece.

          • 2Gary2

            michelle obama spending is sickening,

          • Mark

            She does love to spend your money. You would have thought that a group of socialists would have cut their spending at the White House so that they could lead by example and instead of big parties serving Kobe beef, they could seve up nice food to the homeless. After all the White House belongs to the public. Maybe the term, some are more equal than others might fit there.

        • 2Gary2

          entitlements are earned benefits. Stop falling for the fox news crap. Next you will be complaining about the death (estate) tax that you will never pay unless you are in the 1%.

          The solution is to simply tax the rich and corp hard, and spread the wealth more evenly. Call it what ever you want, I call it redistribution from the 1% to the 99% as opposed to the GOP approved redistribution from the 99% to the 1%

          • Mark

            Gary why do you keep falling for the democratic talking points? Come on, you yourself stated that the Congress crooks just will take any more taxes collected and buy more goodies. Let’s not keep going back to the same stuff that never works. Come up with something new and interesting. Also how in the world are entitlements an earned benefit. That is a big fish story.

          • 2Gary2

            I am simply stating what worked in the past and can work again now.

          • Mark

            Gary, we did not have a debt of about 200 trillion in promises in the past. In the past before the progressives took over, we did not create money out of thin air, it was backed by gold so you could not print like today. 50 years of living on a credit card is not what we did in the past. Come down to earth Gary, the floating is getting to your brain.

          • 2Gary2

            as a % of GDP we were worse off with the debt issues due to WW2. You are simply incorrect in what you are saying.

          • Mark

            If you just consider the 16 trillion that would be true. That figure does not take in to account all of the promises made for future payouts. Also at the end of WW2, we were the only game in town that was not blown up from the war. We also did not have as many socialist programs to pay for at the end of the war. Face it Gary, you progressives have ruined this once great counrty. Remember that progressives can be democrats or republicans that chose not to follow the ideas professed by our Founding Fathers. They wanted small government and you want big bloated government with all kinds of welfare programs.

      • 2Gary2

        then you are for a very regressive tax system.–don’t take my word google it.

        • Mark

          Yes , we understand that you progressives like a progressive tax system where one group pays the way of another. You don’t like a sales tax system or tarriffs because every one pays something for the pleasure to live here. I know that you feel it just is not fair if people that do not produce much have to pay their way. A regressive tax system is very fair since everyone pays something.

          • 2Gary2

            when you look at the TOTAL taxes paid as opposed to cherry picking things like conservatives do, everyone pays about the same % in taxes. Again–check this for yourself. do not take my word.

          • Mark

            Gary, you really believe that a family on welfare pay lots of taxes? Other than sales tax if they live in a state that has sales tax, fuel tax, and the tax on phones, what other taxes do they pay.How much tax does a person on SSI pay or Social Security pay. Come on, how about some common sense. I’m sure you could cherry pick some numbers to support your idea from somewhere. in the clouds.

    • jgranger

      What??? $600.00 a week for unemployment?

      I make just a little more than that as an educated 20yr experienced skilled worker in central Florida; which by the way is no cheaper to live in than any other state(housing is still some of the most expensive in the nation)
      -Still paying off student loans and having to pay for more formal education to stay competitive.My income is in the upper 10% of my communities average

      What paradise do you guys live in??

      • jgranger

        -Student loan payments at about $450.00/Mo thru AES for Senior Semiconductor electronics manufacturing process technician work @ $34K a year (2.7k/mo) salary 50+ hrs/week with a $1,200/mo mortgage pmt on a 40 yr old crumbling house in a blue collar to less neighborhood; 3 teenage kids and one of the very few families with kids not qualified for food stamps in the city.
        – 50 bucks less a week for Unemployment???Where is the problem here???

    • Ralfine

      Yes, get all those in government a wheelchair and a pair of shoes if they need to get around. Saves a lot of money in parking fee and fuel.

      After all, those tanks for $30 Million each is something the tax payer can’t afford.
      If they need a caddy to lug their equipment around, they can hire a shareholder for free, so he can get some work experience.

      • Mark

        Ralfine, you do not live here in the US. You do not understand the system that our Founding Fathers chose to set up here. You are a socialist or a communist that likes the socialist system set up in London. Great, stay there and live in that system. We have many problems that the Socialists/ Progressives have brought to this Country. If we are to survive as a nation, we need to go back to our roots and be responsible for our own needs. A small safety net, even though our Founders were against it is here and will stay. It is stupidity to follow the European route to being a bankrupt nation. That also goes for our bloated military. Our Founding Fathers warned us not to get into the situation that we are in with endless wars that will never end. You keep bringing up about shareholders and comparing them to spending in other areas. We need to cut all spending, in every department if we are to bloom again as a nation.We like our style of freedom here and not what you feel is freedom in London. You have more cameras watching you than any other place in the world. To me you live in a prison camp. You want a government to feed and cloth you and to tell you what you are allowed to do each day.You rave about China and all of the so called freedom over there, except that ypu admit that you can’t be critical about the government. You see, in the US, many of us think that is real freedom to say what we think when we want too.

        • Ralfine

          Yes, it is real freedom to say what you want to.

          I believe it is real freedom to walk where I want to, when I want to without the neeed of bodyguards or being armed to the teeth.

          You seee, it seems quite paradox that you have the right to talk, but 75% of Americans do not vote. It seems they do not care who is ruling them.

          You know why I bring up the shareholders, do you?

          Many people talk about parasites in society. People who do not work, but get paid. Well, shareholders don’t work and get paid, right?

          You see, what’s the point about being critical about the government? You can be critical all day every day, how much did you change since you became critical?

          See also above my comment regarding voting in the US.

          You see, in socialist countries like China or the Eastern Block, people can be critical about the government. All day, every day. But nothing changes. So people become more critical, talk more, talk louder, and still nothing changes.

          So, people leave the country. Or they start organizing resistance.

          You remember what happened with organized resistance in the US, right? Occupy wallstreet? Police brutality?

          Remember McCarthy? Freedom of speech? Hoover? Freedom?

          Maybe people outside the US know more about the US than Americans know about the outside world?

          You know, people in socialist countries try to keep out of the way of governments. They take care of their own business, And people who survived the Eastern bloc know that governments are not for eternity. And you can’t rely on governments. Ever. You vote, but you only trust them as far as you can see them.

          Yes, there are cameras in England.

          Yes, the UK is an island. When I want to leave it, I neeed to walk through metal detectors, to board the plane, ferry or train.

          But the usual police is unarmed.

          How many innocent people are shot in the US by police, and how many in England?

          Walking unharmed outside my home is freedom. And I still have the right to resist any rogue government.

          You can do what you want over there. Just let’s exchange experiences using the Internet. Talking is better than shoooting. Our grandparents didn’t have that opportunity, they had to believe what their respective governments told them about enemies and wars.

          You know the big difference between capitalism and socialism?

          When I told my boss in the Eastern Bloc country that he was an idiot, nothing happened.
          If I say what I want when I want it in a captialist country I lose my job.

        • 2Gary2

          war is the enemy of the poor

        • Thank you for keeping foreigners informed that they, as socialists, do not understand the true, original system of government of the United States, as written by our Founding Fathers. When we lived under this system of government, our nation thrived.

          Under the liberalized, socialistic hodge podge we have in place today, our nation is in a downward spiral that won’t stop until we have crashed into complete bankruptcy, both financial and moral.

          I wish that America’s leftists could truly understand the great harm that has been done to this country by their liberal, socialist, utopian fantasies and fairy tales. I will never understand why they continue to insist that socialism is the answer to all our problems, when it is a fact that socialism/Marxism has never succeeded even once in all of recorded history.

    • Ralfine

      Here is a tax system that works:
      Hong Kong:
      Max salary tax: 15%
      (You can deduct max $1000 per year for education, and max $100 for donations)

      max profits tax: 17%
      no VAT
      tax-financed public health care for every citizen.
      Luxury tax on gambling, cars, alcohol, tobacco
      Fuel tax on petrol and diesel
      Property tax

      That’s about it. The Hong Kong government doesn’t have debts.

    • primrose

      I agree totally about the scooters, etc. Only the
      VERY disabled should have them subsidized and then only partially. And I’m a senior citizen who bought her own wheelchair and walker – no gov. handout. As for SS being an entitlement, I disagree. It’s a program that we paid into all our working life and the gov. stole the money and gave it to people who never worked a day in their life. Millions went from expired unemployment directly onto SS disability. What’s wrong with this picture? Get rid of the smarmy litigators who encourage people to sue or go on disability and put SS back into a lock box that collects interest. Close the fraud and loopholes in Medicare, problem solved. Yeah, right!

      • Mark

        You might disagree about Social Security being an entitlement, but you should read the ruling passed by the Supreme Court in1937. That would be Helvring vs Davis. The holding states that the funds collected from the employer and the employee must go into the general treasury and the funds can’t be earmarked for a special purpose. That makes it a just a tax and we do not have a claim on any tax. How the congress crooks spend is up to them. They chose to hand out an entitlement and set the rules to receive it each month. The rules might be different, but it still sounds like welfare to me.The court also ruled in Flemming vs Nestor that you do not have any right to collect Social Security, that Congress crooks can change the rules at any time. The original 1935 Social Security Act in Section 1104 states: the right to alter, amend, repeal, any provision of this Act is hereby reserved to the Congress crooks. I beleive that settles the disagreement in the reading of the law. They promised you a rose garden, then by law and their choice turned it into a patch of weeds. There is not any Social Security Trust Fund, it is made up of a bunch of worthless bonds that can’t be sold to the public. Another word for the trust funds would be that they are just IOU’s from the government that they do not have to pay back.

    • 2Gary2

      I love watching all the tea baggers motoring around at tea party rallies in their gov scooters that have a confederate sign plastered to the back spouting all the anti-gov crap.

      • Mark

        They should buy them with their own money and not yours or mine.

  • Mondobeyondo

    Let’s say you have a gold mine. Everyone wants a piece of it, of course. To get to the gold, someone has to drill a mine shaft. Usually, its the peasants who do the dirty work drilling the shaft to get to the gold (i.e. the middle class who formerly had industrial jobs, the farmers, construction workers, steel workers, retail workers, pizza delivery drivers, and so forth).

    As usual, the government, and its cronies, end up with nearly all the gold.

    The middle class gets the shaft.

    Works every time.

    • Ralfine

      Then the working class must charge for anything coming through that shaft.

      As long as the gold remains below, it isn’t much use for the government, is it?
      If they want to bring it up, they need to pay for it.

      Those who operate the wheels, can also make them stop.

  • wascator

    The increased taxes will not approach what is needed to match government’s runaway spending; maybe a good kick in the ribs will wake people up to the serious mistake they just made in the recent election. The government has been hiding what they are doing adn the truth needs to slap them upside the head.

  • Hambone

    All of this information is impossible… Uncle O said all he wanted to do was make the rich pay their fair share, and Uncle O doesn’t lie.

    • primrose


  • Trekki

    Looks like 2013 will truly be an unlucky year! Happy new year? I think not. At least not for wage earners.

  • ian

    you just sampled FAUX news. Epic fail.

    • Hambone

      Start your own blog, dude. I wish you well with it.


    A lot of people seem to think it’s either the republicans or democrats that have messed this country up well I have news for you! It’s both parties. They don’t care about you or me, all they are about is there family and there friends and where there next big check is coming from. Do you ever wonder why none of them went off then they passed NDAA or Agenda 21 I’ll tell you why, It’s to protect themselves.when everything comes crashing down.In the end they will round up the guns . .

    • chilller

      In the end, they will start the next civil war ATTEMPTING to round up all the guns…

      • DiscouragedOne

        But they can attack us with drones if we do not “cooperate” as they have done to innocent civilians in other countries, including U.S. citizens in other countries.

        QUICK, somebody figure out how to re-program the remote signal, and send any drones sent to the homes of US Citizens either to the White House or Congress, well we can alternate between one and the other. We should be ready in case they decide to use this tactic.

      • We would all be shot down in a heart beat. To late we have given up control of our lives for stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • Truther

          70% of the police and military will not comply with orders when the time comes.

          • DiscouragedOne

            Truther, I totally believe that, our military will not turn on its people, but I think even higher than 70%.

    • agglebert

      both parties are rotten, but actually the blame for the demise of amerika rests with the CITIZENS of amerika who stand for this nonsense. no immoral, self-indulgent, flirtatious, decadent, lack of restraint of their children, narcissistic, Godless people will ever be free.

    • I want obama to come to my house personally to get my guns.

  • bwoboe1

    The question is, what WILL start to fix the disparity between the 1% and the 99%? because we do not have a capitalist society, instead a corporatist society which has used government to secure their wealth, I see the only option for the people to level the playing field is through taxation of the benefactors of the corporatist system.

    Many decrying Gary seem to think we are living in a capitalist society where everyone has an equal opportunity to become ultra-rich. Unfortunately the deck has been stacked against the common man, and the powers that be have a vested interest in keeping the have-nots divided so they may continue to horde their amassed wealth.

    This blog has talked about the invasion of corporatist fascism in this country, but won’t take the step to tax the benefactors of this corporatist corruption.

    What pray tell then, is the answer?
    We are well on our way to the 0.1% and the 99.9%

    • Mark

      Small government with fewer regulations might be a good start. The regulations are quite often political favors to a business to limit competing with others that can’t meet the rules for one reason or another. It does not make a lot of sense to keep a corupt system and continue to use it or tweek it with tax laws. Those in power will continue to have the tax laws written to favor them. This is what you get with big government every time. Some things never change.

      • 2Gary2

        the size of government is not important. It is how effective government actually is that matters. I would say that for the 1% the government works very well. Not so much for the rest of us.

        We need to have the government level the playing field as that is the only institution that has the power to do this. Get the money out of elections would get people who actually represent the average person and not just the 1%. Many studies have shown that congress respond way more to the wishes of the 1% than the 99%.

        Consider who the fake koch brother got right through on the phone to gov walker. Do you think for a minute I or anyone else could pick up the phone and get right through? Yes we all know walker is a koch sucker and a fraud that only a uneducated dolt would vote for. But I digress…

        • Mark

          Gary, the size of government does matter. The larger it grows the less responsive it is to you or I. The larger it grows, the more money it removes from your pocket. This is common sense. The larger it grows, it takes more managers, office buildings, computer systems, pensions, health benefits, and it all costs money.

  • leeholsen

    “What else will 2013 bring?”
    In addition to increased taxes in some form affecting everyone somehow, food and energy inflation will keep increasing.
    It’s not going to hit everyone like a shovel in January(Obamacare will do that January 2014), but it will be a steady drain on people. I’m betting it’ll occur to people early spring and they will slam their wallets shut on spending because they have already maxed out their credit cards(December was a record for consumer debt) and when the US consumer cuts spending even more, the second recession in 4 years starts really rolling downhill.
    I cannot believ the cliff came down to the last day. Anyone thinking anyone in DC cares one wit about you is a fool. Personally, I hope the market crashes over the next month while they fiddle, I’ll make enough on the downside so that I never need the US govt again and move to somewhere like Russia. At least there, I know Putin says what he means.

  • Hawaiianfive0

    This was a good and informative article about what is coming, but the one thing that I would have to disagree with in the article is that while some federal workers may get good benefits I know many who do not. I am a contractor, but my benefits are far better than most of the federal employees, but I believe in general pay is a lot less for contractors. For my mother who was a USPS employee with the federal benefits they were not that good at all. The medical was not that great and just as costly as others. I know many private sector medical benefits that are better. The retirement wasn’t that great….maybe $1000 to $1200 a month, but then you have to deduct $500 a month from that just to pay medical, which doesn’t leave much to live on after 25+ years invested. I do not think that is good. I think many have this idea that the federal workers had it so great. I know there are some that did have it really good and got cost of living

  • WarriorClass3

    Time for a real revolution; stop funding the monkey!


    They can raise taxes all they want.
    If all of the middle class say to heck with it, we are’nt paying….what are they gonna do? throw the entire middle class in prison?
    They will have no choice but to end overspending.
    IMPEACH OBAMA ! That alone will solve most of the problem.

    • Mark

      They, the government will throw some in prison to make a point. The rest will have their property taken if they have any or will have leans placed on their wages until the principal, interest and penalties are paid in full. If you have income, they will take their share. Pay your taxes, it is so much easier than to be on the run from the IRS.

    • Martin 0002

      You may impeach Obama but another clown will come. American political system is dead. It is just one of many corrupt Third World systems.

  • Mondobeyondo

    Don’t bother writing to Congress about this. They’re on vacation for the holidays. Not that it matters much. The impasse would just continue that much longer. Let Obama and Boehner fight it out.

    “They’re real Nowhere People
    Living in their Nowhere Land
    Making all their Nowhere Plans
    For Nobody.”

    [ “Nowhere Man”, Beatles]

  • Ralfine

    The term middle class is mudding the waters. It’s make belief that you “made it” from the low life and are on your way to the high life.

    In fact, you only have two major classes:
    a) Those who own production means and can make profits.
    b) Those who own only themselves and have to sell / rent out their skin, time, soul on the market to get income.

  • Ralfine

    “On the whole, 98 percent of those with incomes between $200,000 to $500,000 would pay an additional $11,000 in AMT this year”

    So what? $11 of $500 is just 2.2% Less than inflation.

    Groceries and rents and transport costs are not charged according to income, but as absolute values.

    People who have an after tax income of $20,000 have more difficulty to pay for education and medicine, after paying $20,000 for rent, transport and food, than people with an after tax income of $100,000.

  • Tony

    To the lowlife who runs this website –
    You are either a person who enjoys dramatizing your articles or simply a vile person…I choose the latter.
    Do you realize the tone of your first 4 sentences of your article? Go back and read them. Your tone suggests you truly want the middle class to suffer. I guess it gives you pleasure knowing you can continue your over-the-top articles on how bad things are. Yeah, as if we need some pathetic and vindictive moron behind a keyboard to inform us.
    ..and you claim to be a lawyer?

    • Mark

      I believe that the purpose of this blog is to wake up the sheeple so that over time we might think about how we vote or how we might be imformed so that we could, if we so choose to take the imformation in this blog and put it to use. Most of the rest of the news media will not even try to do this. If you choose to hide your head in the sand, go right ahead.

    • MichaelfromTheEconomicCollapse

      You think I actually want the middle class to suffer?

      Are you insane or have you just not read many of my articles?


      • Mark

        As things get more depressed in the real world, there will be plenty of Tonys to blame others. The truth is that many sheeple could have done something to be better prepared for what might come our way. In this country there are very few that have been so poor that they could not have done something good for themselves for the future.

      • K

        Michael, you are being picked up, by quite a few websites. As a result, I have reason to think you have been assigned a paid shill. As your coverage grew, this was to be expected. They will attack you, and post misinformation. That is their job. I hope you will not let that bother you. It basically means you have arrived. Well done, delete them as necessary..

    • Rodster

      Typical liberal/leftist/socialist response. Just trying to discredit an individual with insults and rants. Not once did you ever intellectually counter his points, nope instead you go on a tirade filled with insults.

      If this site bothers you that much maybe you should stick with MSDNC or CNN for your daily dose of real news.

      • 2Gary2

        this is what syrin does on the right-calls names as he has no grasp of reality.

        • Mark

          Gary, you treat conservatives without respect, Why would you expect people that you call nasty names on a regular basis to treat you nice.

    • 2Gary2

      Michael likes to throw red meat to his conservative base.

      • Mondobeyondo

        I doubt it. Red meat is too expensive.
        T-bone steaks $9.99 a pound

    • Mondobeyondo

      Oh dear. Are you really that blind to what’s going on around you? Take a look around.

      Sorry for the brief interlude. I will now continue to watch the video for “Celebrity Skin” by Hole, on Youtube. Happy New Year everyone!

  • rporth

    All corporate taxes are simply yet another tax on the consumer…… We pay the tax as part of the cost of the product or service…..

  • Stupid question here, probably, but what happens if we CAN’T pay the increase? I know I can’t…..

    • Mr Magoo

      Off to the FEMA camps then.

    • They will allow you to make payments. The IRS is real good about getting their money. Of course interest is tacked on as you make the payments. Oh, and if you miss a payment? They attach your bank accounts and garnish your wages. You WILL pay the increase whether you think you can or not.

      Elections have consequences.

  • Millions of people are going to die. Chaos
    will reign on the streets of America: starving, jobless, homeless, afraid in their own homes as the police and fire services, so long taken for granted, can no longer be provided due to the toxic mortgage scam, the LIBOR fraud, QE1, QE2, QE3, QE4, etc…left deliberately unprosecuted; their foreign policy co-opted by Israel, the public policy institutions infiltrated, the legislature rendered powerless to help them, deluded and looted by a false-flag attack that created the police state edifice that now is about to take away the means to defend themselves (Sandy Hook MK-ULTRA), and the DHS having purchased 1.5 billion hollow-point bullets to be used against the American people. Obama and Feinstein know

    • I Will be going to the florida keys to live to get away from tyranny.

  • Bruce

    That’s NAPPY (No Account President and Party of Yoo’re) $CREWED Year! FUEHRERWARD!!

  • Patriot Alice

    The “Fiscal cliff” was an agreement the 12 Senators agreed to last year, because it is the best solution for our fiscal woes…Neither of the parties want to take responsibility for the outcome, and so they’ve embarked on the blame game, for political reasons…Let’s take that jump off the cliff together,…

  • Pat MySecret

    I’m unemployed with no benefits. Do you really think I care?

  • 2Gary2

    A friend sent me this–we can probably all agree with it. For the record I did not vote for Paul Ryan the career politication who was born with a silver spoon I voted against him. So I did not vote for the incumbent in congress,

    Let’s look at what we have
    learned from this election: Twenty-one of 22 incumbent senators were
    re-elected, and 353 of 373 incumbent members of the House were
    re-elected. The American people have re-elected 94 percent of the
    incumbents who were running for re-election to an institution that has
    an approval rating of about 9 percent. This indicates, as an electorate,
    we are a nation of idiots. We’re now stuck with the useless,
    dysfunctional government that we deserve.

    • Mark

      One way that might help would be strict term limits. In the House, one 2 year term in your lifetime and then go back home, period.

      • 2Gary2


        • Mark

          I would bet that even Syrin would agree with this.

        • Mark

          Gary, careful now, you might start sounding like those of us that would like to return to small government. Non -professional reps. would not have the time or ability to write a bunch of usless laws. They might listen to little people and not unions, corporations, Earth First type of groups. A lot of the lefts power would be gone. At the same time so would corporate Global lose some power. They might think that fewer regulations and lower taxes might bring more jobs from small business. They could also spend a little time to listen to you. Are you willing to take that chance inorder to return power to little people?

      • quercus454

        Totally agree. The founders of this country never imagined a class of professional politicians running this country. A political elite that is so far removed from the people they are supposed to represent, that they have become a replacement for the royalty we ousted in 1776.

  • 2Gary2

    I never said I am anti gun.

    • Mark

      The party that you support is very anti-gun. You vote for them so I suppose you kind of own their position in some small way.

  • Chino

    I use to have a decent job, it had benefits and I always had a check. I worked hard for these people and gave over 15 years of my life to them, and they one day moved away to India. They left me with no job. I took my experience and tried working for other people, they didn’t want to pay on time, or they couldn’t pay after so they had to let me go. I then went to work for another company and worked hard for them and again they couldn’t pay and so they outsourced my talents out to people in other parts of the world. I again went to look for another job and could not find one. I went to work out of my experience and learned some new things, I finally found a job and began working again. I then again was let go, not enough work for us due to the economy is what they said. I am now living in my car, and I use the internet to look for work wherever I can. Since I have lost my wife and family. They think that I am lazy and don’t want to work, so they left me. I lost the house where we were living as a family for over 15 years. I don’t have anything to lose anymore, I don’t really care anymore about much. I think I am going to sell my car and start walking around everywhere I need to go. I am not the only one. Other men are here in the library with me. I have spoken to some, and the same thing has happened to them that has happened to me. Only some it takes a little longer to come to this low, others have fallen much faster, and haven taken to drinking and drugs. Some I know are now part of the lucrative Texas Department of Corrections. Oh well, back to careerbuilder looking for work again.

    • 2Gary2

      Hey maybe if we give another tax cut to the rich that would help? Maybe eliminating the estate tax will solve your issues.

      Can you see in the above conservative answers to everything how the conservatives are destroying this country??

      • Mark

        Gary, why in the world if I worked hard and invested my skills as a plumber fixing up junk rental property since 1981, should my children have to hand over the investments my wife and I leave to them? The government has done nothing to earn the ownership of the property through the estate tax .I have paid taxes on the property and income tax all these years. I am the one that cleaned toilets, picked up cig. butts off of the sidewalks, painted walls, managed the property, did the accounting on the property, put on new roofs on the property, pulled weeds on the property, listened to a neighbor complain about a tenants guests parking in front of their house in the middle of the night as if I can do something about it. The government would continue to collect the same taxes from my children that we pay today. All that needs to be done is to have the people that inherit the property to use the same basis of value instead of a new stepped up basis. That way when the children decide to sell the property, they would pay the same amount of tax that I would pay if I sold the property. That is fair, it is not fair to take an investment that supplies people with a nice place to live and force it to be sold so that more temporary taxes go into the federal and state government coffers.

        • 2Gary2

          the estate tax is meant to avoid large concentrations of wealth. It has obviously failed to do this which is why it needs to be way higher. You are paying in your estate taxes to the country that enabled you to prosper. No one ever succeeds on their own. There is no such thing as a self made man or women and the sooner you shed that selfish individualistic thinking the sooner this country will prosper for ALL the people. The same opportunities you had to succeed should be there for following generations. It still amazes me how often this needs to be explained to people. This is obvious.

          I once heard Bill Gates say he could have never succeeded if he were born in some poor amazon country.

          • Collectivism is the most disgusting contrivance ever fashioned. And you sound as though it is some quasi religious duty to hand over everything to the collective.

          • Mark

            Mark, that was beautiful and much better than I could ever do. Thank you.

          • 2Gary2

            I NEVER said hand everything over to anyone. I am simply saying those that “made it” should not be pulling the ladder up after them. Capitalism needs a strong socialist counter weight to balance out the winner take all we have now and to stifle capitalism from becoming crony capitalism which all capitalism will always become.

          • Mark

            You do not have capitalism today in the US. It is crony capitalism in the USA because of all of the regulations, tax laws, zoning laws and political favors put in place from corrupt people in this big oversized government.


      I am sorry to hear that rodster. that is a real bummer to work as hard as you and to end up homeless. I have heard Texas has lots of jobs for the skilled. I guess not.

  • Bob Anderson

    Obama has a mandate and the American people demand more govt, more police, more protection, and less freedom, and so they will get it. Good job America!

  • davidmpark

    Okay, today is 12/31/12, and Congress has decided we’re going over the cliff into the muck.

    Even if they did renew the tax cuts, then we’d have Obamacare/Obamataxes to deal with. If they fixed both, we’d have the debt premiums to throw us over – and they can’t fix that. The time to fix the debt was 17 years ago.

    Here’s what we’re planning for the next month.

    We have enough of the basics, but it’ll last longer with some changes. The car we’ll keep for long distance and sparse family travel, but buy a moped: better gas mileage and usage costs plus cheaper parts. I know there’s a lot of complaints about mopeds, but we can make repairs and convert to a wood gas system easier and cheaper.

    We also are going to control costs better by explaining to the kids about economics and let ’em know they have to deal with it. Smaller homemade birthday and Christmas presents and a lot of gratitude.

    As for the livestock and other home production equipment being taken by Zoning… well, we’ll get a new set of breeding stock and rebuild after the citizenry that didn’t prepare burns down City Hall in their rioting. They’ll run out the politico’s and bureaucrats (or worse). We’ll wait ’til the place calms down, redo the charter, elect a mayor and sheriff with the fear of God in ’em and it should be alright.

    • Mark

      I don’t think that it will be all that nice. Most of the livestock will be stolen and much of it wasted. I do not know how we could protect all the cows we have at this time if it hit the fan.And we live 12miles outside of a small town of around 2500 people. I am going to sell most of them this spring and only keep around 5 cows and a bull. Feed costs are too high and it is hard to make any profit anymore.

  • Both parties make me sick.

  • Tell the truth snyder , 25 % of the jobs pay 40 k or over . 17 % of the workforce are state , local or federal workers . Guess who is going to be affected the most ?
    Whatever is left of 8 % of the workforce that is non union . So do we really care if a bunch of civil serpents take it up the fart pipe from this ? I sure don’t.

  • Welcome to the continuing elimination of the middle class. American workers are not needed anymore to build corporate empires … they are overseas now.

  • royals85

    World War III is coming in ’13. Get ready for it, if one can ever be ready for disaster. Unless God intervenes in the world, which I don’t believe He will, but will leave us to our fate, then war on a massive scale is coming at U.S. hard and fast. Be as prepared as possible for what is coming at U.S.
    Good people have accepted and tolerated evil for far too long. We got our 30 pieces of silver and now it is time to pay for our transgressions.
    We could have been spared, but the time has passed for U.S. to have been spared disaster.
    A quote from the mini-series Centenial: “This is my home Mercy. I was born here…I live here… and I will die here”.
    I wish all those who read this site the best and may God bless you in these turbulent times.

  • istokov

    Уровень жизни населения зависит от элиты.Повышение уровня жизни населения уменьшает расстояние между обычными людьми и элитой.Уменьшение разрыва между обычными людьми и элитой грозит исчезновением элиты,поэтому повышение уровня жизни населения не выгодно для элиты.Нет бедных,нет элиты.

  • Mark

    You really are insane.



  • quercus454

    I had a good laugh last night. I watched all of the fools in New York City celibrate the New Year. I want what these same idiots that support Obama and Bloomberg are smoking. They were all out laughing and having a good time as the bus they are riding on rolls off the cliff. I guess if your delusional, all is good so long as you never wake up!

  • Norse Prepper

    psyco prepper is right, this article is also a

    MEG-A-REPEAT article. What’s the point. Can anyone write something orginial besides me.

  • Big Al

    So very sad what is happening to this country. I am a veteran and have always trusted in my country and my fellow americans. Guess I’ve been a fool. I cannot help but wonder what the next couple of years will bring, and what the future holds for my country. We are ripping ourselves apart. Our politicians play the politics of hate and envy and we wonder why people take guns into schools, supermarkets, movie theaters, etc. Even here in these comments people take shots at each other. The fact is we either stand or fall together. Of course we all benefit from living in this country and I’ve never had an issue with paying my fair share. But these days, our government is throwing away so much money and we’re paying for that. I continue to pay my fair share but when is enough enough? Is it moral for our leaders to continue to bleed us in the middle class? Is it moral to continue to spend our children’s money? Our money is being debased through all of this monetizing of our debt, is that moral? Like every empire before us, we are falling from within. Look at history, at the Greeks, the Romans. We are falling the same way they did. Our government is using the same monetizing solution the Weimar Republic used following WWI which collapsed the German economy and paved the way for Hitler. Is that where we’re headed? Look as us as a people – where is our compassion, our morality, our trust, our character. We allow the legal murder of 1,500,000 babies each year through legal abortion. Some are killed while they are being born. It’s crazy!!! Look at the violence in our entertainment from TV to Movies to video games. Look at all of the sexual immorality. We are debased as a people. We worry about the environment and not the people – save the trees and kill the children. I once read where the abortion doctor who took over George Tiller’s practice following his murder said that “human beings are an ecological cancer on the face of this planet” – what insanity. We’ve become a country of bloated materialistic consumers who remove God from the public square and wonder why our society is in the toilet. It’s time we woke up and took a stand regardless of wether if it’s too late. I think God has abandoned us to our own immoral passions and we reap the fruit of our immorality. Repent and believe Gospel before it’s too late for you.

    • I have been guilty of using words to vent my disgust with those who have pipe dreams of some utopia where there is no competition, no winners and losers, but altruistic fancy strewn far and wide under an umbrella of authoritarian nanny love.

      But then again, there are so many ways to be warped and stupid in today’s world. Oh, let me count the ways….no, that would take a ridiculously long time. But the beginning of your post makes me think of how divided and vitriolic message boards have become. It probably goes hand in hand with the breakdown of the fabric of society, morality, and the pressures of being fleeced constantly by a kleptocracy of robber barons.

  • Beepster

    Now, I have a question. What would happen to all the money in those offshore accounts if the banks were destroyed, including their computers????

  • 2Gary2

    Even the pope is against conservatives–you conservatives are going down so hard and so forever,

    Pope Slams Capitalism, Inequality Between Rich And Poor In New Years Message–He also denounced “the prevalence of a selfish and individualistic
    mindset which also finds expression in an unregulated capitalism.

    • How’s that socialist utopia in your head working out? Better than the real thing I’m sure. Have you seen the EU? Somethings rotten in Denmark…

      • 2Gary2

        By almost any measure the Scandinavian countries beat the USA–childhood poverty, economic mobility, length of life etc etc These are things you can check for yourself. The USA is not even in the top 10 anymore. We are not the country many think we are or that we once were. One has much more upward mobility in the EU/Scandinavian countries.

        • Orange Jean

          Rape rates are very high in Oslo from what I understand.

          • 2Gary2

            that may or may not be true, however, I would bet rape is worse in the USA and it is probably under-reported in every country.

            I do not know what that had to do with what I was talking about other than the old conservative trick of muddy the water/false equivalency

          • Mark

            It is bad in Malmo, Sweden

        • Mark

          My brother in law and my wifes sister live in Sweden. He is an engineer and she takes care of old people. They both need to work for a living. Their house is a lot smaller than a typical house in the USA. One car between them. People in the same profession over here do much better. The taxes are very high.They do get some freebies that I do not want. The kids get free college. Not everone needs to go to college. They have a small country with a small population.

          • 2Gary2

            yea that universal healthcare where no one goes bankrupt due to medical bills or dies in the numbers they do in the USA due to lack of healthcare is so terrible. So is a free college education. its much better to be in student loan debt.

            I literally do not get the conservative mentality (or most likely lack their of)

          • Mark

            Gary, the cost of college has gone up so much because the government loan program has made it so a college can raise their fees higher every year. The same thing with medical care. If the market could not pay the high costs the price would have to drop. Those benefits in Sweden are not free. I would not like to pay around an 80% tax. Unlike you, I do like to choose where I spend the money that I earned and not let the government.make my choice for me. What you do not seem to understand about conservatives is that WE LOVE FREEDOM and you don’t. We love being independent and making our own choices. And we are willing to live with the results of our own choices. Do you get it now, Gary.

          • 2Gary2

            I do not see going with out healthcare as being free in fact you are less free with out these benefits. Look at all the people stuck in jobs they hate just or the benefits. The tax is also not 80%

            There is no capitalism solution to healthcare. We have tried that route and its a big failure. Healthcare does not work with free market. You can try trading a chicken to see your doc if you want. Let me know how that works out.

            I believe that the more socialized countries are way more free than the USA. No one need fear falling into poverty and not having food/ medical care etc.

            You are free to live under a bridge.

          • HecatesMoon

            I have lost my healthcare. Apparently I didn’t fill out paperwork that I never got so it was not sent back in. Eh….I don’t really care though. I am tired of pills that I don’t want to take that don’t “fix” me anyway. I do wonder now though if needed, if there are doctors that will trade me for chickens. lol

  • Mary

    I seems that an EMP would be the great equalizer.

  • Orange Jean

    Well, I understand England has a very high unemployment rate… and yet you are paying all those “Royals”… what for??

    • Ralfine

      I’m not sure, but I believe I heard, they are not paid by the people, but are paying tax themselves.

      That’s the point in England – the landowner is always getting rent income.

      Let’s say you own some land. Then some company can mine things from your land, like sand, stones, oil, etc. and for every ton they remove they pay the landowner a royalty.
      So the landowner doesn’t have any risk, but gets the money.

      Or the landowner rents out some land so someone who wants to build a business park.

      Or he issues hunting licenses, fishing licenses, timber licenses, etc.

      These landowners are the Lords, who sit in the House of Lords.

      That’s the business part.

      For entertainment you then have the parliament, and local councils.

  • Sick and Crazy Prepper

    I think I will just Kill Myself

  • Washington76

    If you were a child of the 50’s,60’s,70’s or early 80’s this is a salute to you. “I can’t believe we made it!”

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