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America: Where Hard Working, Productive Members Of Society Pay For The Health Care Of Everyone Else

ObamacareEverybody in America wants health care – but most Americans seem to want someone else to pay for it.  In the United States today, the way that our system works is that the hard working, productive members of society pay for the health care of everyone else.  At least under socialism everyone gets the same benefits.  Our system of health care is a very twisted version of socialism where millions upon millions of very hard working people are forced to pay for the health care of others, but often can’t afford to purchase decent health insurance for themselves.  Personally, I don’t have a big employer paying for my health care so I have to buy it myself, and I just got a letter from my health insurance company telling me that I have another massive rate increase coming up.  Have you gotten a similar letter?  Health insurance premiums are going up all over America, and this is just the beginning.  In fact, the CEO of Aetna says that health insurance rates for many Americans will double when the major provisions of Obamacare kick in next year.

It would be bad enough if hard working Americans just had to pay for their own health insurance.  But no, they are also expected to pay for the health care of members of Congress, employees of the IRS and other federal agencies, state and local government employees, their adult kids (because they can’t afford health insurance), the elderly, the poor, and now under Obamacare they will also be expected to subsidize the health plans of tens of millions of other Americans that are not poor enough to qualify for Medicaid.

When you add it all up, the hard working, productive members of society are at least partially subsidizing the health care of well over half of all Americans while having to pay for their own health care at the same time.

Needless to say, it isn’t too hard to see who is getting the raw end of the deal.

Members of Congress certainly don’t want to pay for their own health care.  There was panic in the halls of Congress recently when they started realizing that due to certain provisions in Obamacare they may soon be forced to pay for their own health insurance plans.  There was widespread moaning and complaining about how they would be facing “thousands of dollars in additional premium payments” every year.

Things got so bad that Barack Obama got personally involved in the effort to find a solution.  Thankfully, members of Congress can relax because a ruling is being issued that will allow the federal government to continue to subsidize 75 percent of the cost of their health plans…

Lawmakers and staff can breathe easy — their health care tab is not going to soar next year.

The Office of Personnel Management, under heavy pressure from Capitol Hill, will issue a ruling that says the government can continue to make a contribution to the health care premiums of members of Congress and their aides, according to several Hill sources.

A White House official confirmed the deal and said the proposed regulations will be issued next week.

And the IRS, which has been put in charge of imposing the rules of Obamacare on all the rest of us, is freaking out about the fact that some members of Congress would like to force them to personally participate in Obamacare

The union that represents IRS employees is urging its members to write to their congressmen to help get the union out of Obamacare.

The following are some excerpts from a letter that the union that represents IRS employees sent to members of Congress…

“H.R. 1780 would put federal employees in a special class where they would be prohibited from receiving health insurance through their employer. It would treat federal employees differently from state and local government employees and most employees of large private sector companies who receive health insurance benefits through their employer. The primary purpose of the Affordable Care Act was to provide a marketplace for the sale and purchase of health insurance for those who do not have such coverage – not to take coverage away from employees who already receive it through their employers,” the letter reads.

“I work hard and am proud of the services that I provide to your constituents every day. One of the main benefits I receive as a federal employee is the ability to purchase health insurance coverage through the FEHBP with an employer contribution towards those benefits. Please let me know your views on this legislation. I look forward to hearing back from you,” the letter concludes.

This is just shameful.  If the IRS is going to impose Obamacare on the rest of America, then it should be good enough for them too.

Just check out acting IRS chief Danny Werfel begging for employees of his agency not to have to go on Obamacare…

But we have always had to at least partially subsidize the health plans of federal, state and local government workers.

The big change under Obamacare is that we will soon be subsidizing the health plans of tens of millions of our fellow Americans.

CNN says that 26 million Americans will be eligible for health insurance subsidies, but others believe that the true number is far, far higher than that.

For example, according to CNBC, a family of three in New York that earns $78,120 a year would be eligible for a subsidy of more than five thousand dollars…

In New York, a family of three whose annual income totals $78,120, would pay $12,784 for the second-lower-priced silver plan on that state’s insurance exchange. After getting a $5,363 tax credit, the family’s net cost for the insurance would be $7,421.

So who pays for that?

You and I do through our tax dollars.

And if you can believe it, Obamacare actually provides an incentive to not work too hard, because if you make too much money you could lose your health insurance subsidy…

Working more could ultimately mean thousands of dollars less for you under a quirk in the new health-care law going into effect this fall. This could prompt some people to cut back on their hours to avoid losing money.

“Working more can actually leave you worse off,” the price-comparison site ValuePenguin.com notes in a new analysis.

“It’s sort of an absurd scenario,” said Jonathan Wu, ValuePenguin.com’s co-founder. “It’s something for people to be aware of.”

In that scenario, an individual or family whose annual income surpasses maximums set by the federal government—if only by $1—will totally lose subsidies available to buy health insurance under the Affordable Care Act.

What a perverse system.

And of course Obamacare will allow young adults to stay on the health insurance policies of their parents until they reach 26 years of age.  As I mentioned the other day, 36 percent of all young adults in the 18 to 31 age bracket are currently living with their folks.  In most of those cases, the parents have to end up footing the bill for health care because the kids simply cannot afford it.

Medicaid continues to expand as well.  Certainly helping the poor is a very good thing, but unfortunately the number of poor just continues to explode.

Back in 1965, only one out of every 50 Americans was on Medicaid.  Today, one out of every 6 Americans is on Medicaid, and things are about to get a whole lot worse.

Right now, there are more than 56 million Americans on Medicaid, and it is being projected that Obamacare will add 16 million more Americans to the Medicaid rolls.

It is going to take a whole lot of money to support 72 million Medicaid patients.

And then of course there is Medicare.

When Medicare was first established, we were told that it would cost about $12 billion a year by the time 1990 rolled around.

Instead, it actually cost the federal government $110 billion in 1990, and it will cost the federal government close to $600 billion this year.

But if you think this is bad, just wait until all of the Baby Boomers retire.  It is being projected that the number of Americans on Medicare will grow from a little bit more than 50 million today to 73.2 million in 2025.  By then, we would be spending well over a trillion dollars a year on Medicare.

As you can see, under Obamacare the vast majority of all Americans will have their health care at least partially subsidized.

And it expected that our tax dollars will somehow be enough to pay for all of this.

The truth is that we have a deeply broken system.  Costs are spiraling out of control and nobody is quite sure how to fix things.  The following statistics come from one of my previous articles entitled “50 Signs That The U.S. Health Care System Is A Gigantic Money Making Scam“…

-This year the American people will spend approximately 2.8 trillion dollars on health care, and it is being projected that Americans will spend 4.5 trillion dollars on health care in 2019.

-The United States spends more on health care than Japan, Germany, France, China, the U.K., Italy, Canada, Brazil, Spain and Australia combined.

-If the U.S. health care system was a country, it would be the 6th largest economy on the entire planet.

-Back in 1960, an average of $147 was spent per person on health care in the United States. By 2009, that number had skyrocketed to $8,086.

The sad thing is that many hard working Americans in the private sector are being forced to subsidize the health care of others, but they can’t even afford decent health care for themselves.

For example, I know of one hard working couple that has a health plan that has a $1,000 deductible.  Even with that deductible, their health insurance premiums are absolutely ridiculous.  Their health care strategy is simply to avoid going to the hospital or visiting a doctor as much as possible.

And of course health insurance companies make money by providing as little health care as possible.  Many Americans have discovered that when you need them the most, some health insurance companies will try to get out of covering you any way that they possibly can.

The reality is that just because you have health insurance that does not mean that you are “covered”.

According to a study that was published in The American Journal of Medicine, medical bills are a major factor in more than 60 percent of all personal bankruptcies in the United States.  Of those bankruptcies that were caused by medical bills, approximately 75 percent of them involved people that actually did have health insurance.

So what is the bottom line?

The bottom line is the system stinks, and Obamacare is going to make things a whole lot worse.

  • Ralfine

    It looks like Obamacare is used as an excuse for everything these days to get more support to shut it down.

    Next, Obamacare is used to explain too much snow, tornados and draught. Just wait.

  • Ralfine

    Hard working people pay for everything, anyway.

    They pay for all the wars.
    They produce all the profits.
    They produced all the 30 trillion profit stored in the Cayman Islands.

    If you produce a car worth 30,000 in your shift, you only get paid what? $100 per day?

    Let 100 people work on that car, and $15,000 spent on raw material. Then there are $5000 profit for someone who got his money from his grandparents dealing in slaves or drugs or tobacco.

    That’s $5000 per day for him, and $100 for you.

    You are hard working and he doesn’t even know how the ignition works. Let alone how to pump up a tyre.

    And since you can’t afford to buy the car, we need to cut down on your salary. Makes sense?

    • jaxon64

      union auto workers make appx $35 an hour on average–when you add in the benefits and pensions that they are guaranteed, the cost to an employer is over $50 an hour….
      Your scenario also forgot many other factors—sales tax, in Maryland is appx 8% –so that 30k car just generated $2,400 in revenue for the state…title, tags, registration–all are really just taxes and add hundreds more–destination charge–also another tricky word for taxes–adds a few hundred more.
      We have employees at the dealership, we have drivers that deliver them, we have detailers that prepare them…
      So in your scenario, what we really have is dozens and dozens of people provided with gainful employment–most with very handsome incomes and retirement accounts and benefits—-large repeated revenues for the local and federal government..and the owners making their just rewards….I don’t see the issue…

      • Ralfine

        The issue is that the owners do not work, but still get paid?

        Isn’t that the definition of a parasite used more often with fired workers who can’t find work any more and are on welfare?

        Doesn’t work but still get paid?

        • jaxon64

          you create a million dollar+ business without doing any work—don’t confuse business owners with the banksters……apples and oranges

          • mijj

            the people who do the work create the million dollar business. The owner reaps the benefits (as a parasite) of that work, while those who create it get a token payment.

          • Bad_Mr_Frosty

            Exactly. If the owner makes 1 really bad decision, he loses his business and everyone is out of a job. He doesn’t get paid big money for “not working”, he gets paid for making life or death decisions. In true capitalism there are no “bail-outs” and nothing is “too big to fail”.

          • Ralfine

            Today, banksters are the business owners.

            Daimler-Benz is owned by Deutsche Bank and some Kuwait Princes, for example.

            You can go to the stock listings and dive deeper into who owns which stocks, it should all be public. Then You’ll see who owns what.

  • Sandy Gray

    Yes, its kind of how it works. And its not a bad thing. If horrible poverty (and the crime that comes with it) are to be staved off, it will be by others helping. So not worth creating this kind of an article out of.

  • Bad_Mr_Frosty

    Give a man a fish, he eats for a day

    Teach a man to fish, he eats for life

    You cannot get rid of poverty by subsidizing it. Wealth transfers aren’t “charity” it’s robbery. I’m willing to help those who help themselves, the rest can starve and die of simple infections. If that makes me wicked, so be it.

    • Mondobeyondo

      It would be interesting to hear your solutions on poverty. LBJ (supposedly) fought a war against poverty. Poverty won.

    • SafetyViking

      Except in the south. Here, we teach a man to fish, he drinks beer in a boat all day…

  • chris

    A twisted version of socialism Micheal? Why don’t you call it what it looks like..Fascism.

    • MichaelfromTheEconomicCollapse

      Socialism and Fascism are actually very close cousins.

      Michael

  • Round Objects

    How did you Americans get so messed up with your compulsory/private health insurance? I live in Australia, I earn $75,000.00 per annum, I pay a 1.5% medicare levy ($1,125.00 p/a), if I take out premium private health insurance ($4500.00 p/a including a 30% tax funded rebate) it’s only 1% ($750.00 p/a). How good are the public hospitals? One month ago I suffered severe dehydration at work, I passed out, the ambulance arrived within 5 minutes and took me to the ER. I was placed on an IV, had blood tests and taken for a head scan, I walked out 4 hours later with a total bill of $0.00. We’ve had this system in place since the 80’s. If you are poor you pay less than $10.00 for all prescribed medication even if it may cost $500 per bottle, if you are rich you pay the first $1000 and then $10 per bottle. Most Australians from the poor to the rich agree, we are a lucky country.

    • Louise in MO

      Wow! This is a genuine question: How educated are your doctors? How many years in med school, etc? What would you guess is the average monthly income for a doctor?

      Thanks for your comment….the way health care should be.

      • guest

        Another Australian here. Not sure on the monthly income for a doctor here, but they are reasonably well paid, spend 7 years in medical school and most universities only accept students who achieved top marks in their entrance exams for medicine. The situation in the US just seems crazy to me as well. When I had my second daughter I was very ill, and spent a week in hospital. Like round objects, my bill was $0.

    • Mudpie

      I have lived Down Under and enjoyed it, but there are some differences. You are a very homogeneous society at present. The lifestyles are probably more healthy than they are here. There are only 20-plus million or so of you and tons and tons of natural resources to exploit and tax. You do not let many people immigrate (a plus, I thought). We found the healthcare fairly good in Australia, but your income taxes as residents are very, very high. You ARE a lucky country but not for the reasons that you reference.

      However, at any rate, we love it Down Under and your people so have a G’Day.

      • Round Objects

        Just to let you know about immigration, 24.6% of Australians were not born here which is the highest rate in the world, whereas the USA is only 12.6%, also 43.1% of Australians have at least one parent born overseas. Income tax, well who wants to pay it anyway, but if you earn $60k you pay $15k in tax, you don’t pay any tax on earnings under $18k so students, part-timers, poor, etc. are looked after.

        • Mudpie

          Look, I love AU and will not quibble. You guys are much more selective than the USA about who can enter. And after all is said and done, I would rather live in die in AU than the USA. That is all.

  • JoeD

    Sorry but this is nothing but sensationalist tripe. Health care as an employment benefit came about in the postwar-era, but now that the economics increasingly make that a difficult proposition someone has to carry the load. We still live in a first-world country, there is no reason for people to be dying in the gutter because they can’t afford basic treatment. If that means those who have benefited most, the already extremely wealthy, from the obscene redistribution of wealth, then so be it.

    • MiniBooger

      I agree that health care should be easier to obtain so all can afford treatment. Obamacare is not that vehicle.

  • Binko

    The essential problem of medical care in America is not who pays for it. The problem is that it’s insanely expensive.

    Article in the NYTimes today contrasted a knee replacement in America that cost over $100,000. The same knee replacement in Belgium costs $11,000.

    The American medical system is the largest and most successful criminal cartel in history. Prices are fixed and maintained at such a brutally high level that our society can literally not afford to pay for it in any real sense.

    Rather than addressing the issue of medical costs we instead play blame games and attempt to shift costs from one group to another. This is a dead end approach.

    • Mondobeyondo

      But WHY is it so expensive???

      • Mondobeyondo

        No, seriously.
        If it was that serious, I’d just hop over to Home Depot on my good leg, and go from there!

        Screws – um, lots to choose from, but those 1/4 inch ones should do my legs just fine:

        Total cost: $2.99

        Shoes: Kind of hard to find orthopedic ones, but hey Kmart has a shoe sale going on, right?

        Total cost: $18.99 I guess. Heck if I know. They change the price every Tuesday. Just don’t go strutting around back alleys in your Ferragamos.

        Rubbing alcohol: Helps stop infections, bee stings, bites from cockatiels and parakeets, and other stuff such as.). Total cost: $1.99, but I’m sure Walmart has it cheaper. (If you’re bitten by a rabid rabbit, by all means see a doctor immediately!)

        • Mondobeyondo

          My apologies to those of you who have actually have screws or rods implanted in their legs. I meant you no disrespect or harm.

          • jaxon64

            I actually do..in both the right arm and leg–and your post was quite funny.
            And to your first question Michael, I got an increase of $30 a week which totals about $1,500 for the year….sounds like I got a steal…

      • voltaic

        Because of a perverse health insurance system run by for-profit entities that have to show larger and larger profits to survive. This writer, who ignored the fact that most other countries find for-profit healthcare abhorrent, ignores the financial destruction caused by these for-profit administrative behemoths. US pays the most for healthcare and receives some of the worst results. But this “writer ignores this fact as well.

      • SafetyViking

        Same reason as gas, housing, food, etc….corporate & human greed…

      • GSOB

        Why is it so expensive?
        (and I quote)

        The Ten Commandments contain 297 words. The Bill of Rights is stated in 463 words.
        Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address contains 266 words.
        A recent federal directive to
        regulate the price of cabbage contains 26,911 words.

      • MeMadMax

        Ironically, it’s expensive because of medicare…
        There are other factors too, like malpractice insurance, stuff like that.

    • mijj

      yup. Healthcare in the US is just another means of wealth transfer from the people to the Corporate Elite.

      A true healthcare system which has healthcare as its priority is a benefit to the whole of society. It should be seen as a fundamental right in an untainted Christian society. Unfortunately, Capitalism is the new religion, and any kind of public service is transformed into cover for theft.

      ps: being employed within a Corporate hierarchy does *not* mean your income is earned. The vast majority of people in corporate employment do not earn their income. (Especially those at the top) They are worse parasites than the unemployed welfare recipients because of their sneering contempt for anyone without money.

      • GSOB

        In an ‘untainted Christian society’,
        there is not a need for health care.

        The contempt is in response to the envious.

      • Nick

        That is so much bs. Healthcare is not a right. Doctors,nurses,and everyone else in the healthcare industry are not your slaves. They deserve to get compensated for their services and if you want to use their services you have to pay just like any other business. And capitalism is not evil. It is the natural state of business. The fairest way to get goods and services at the lowest prices. The reason healthcare is so expensive is because of interference in the market place. People who work in corporate America are just like anyone else, they are not monsters, just people.

        • GOM

          every capitalist country collapses. read some history…

          • Mudpie

            Soviets did real well too, huh?

            Capitalism collapses when it ceases to be capitalism and becomes state sponsored and corrupted by socialist policies and overeducated fools who could not produce their own dinner if they were handed the bowl of lettuce to toss the salad in.

          • mijj

            now now .. let’s not make capitalism a religion. It’s just as much a heap of corrupt useless crap as communism.

            Excuses of the sort “capitalism only fails when it’s not done properly” or “it’s not capitalism that failed. It’s the people who failed” apply also to communism, etc.. Ie. they’re just excuses for systems that have failure built into them.

        • Bruce

          What a bunch of crap. Nobody expects doctors and nurses to work for free. But, the money required to get treatment is ridiculous and NOBODY can justify the amount they charge. Get a grip on reality and not some jadeded point of view. I’d bet your in the medical field and greed has swallowed you up.

          • David Hammond

            What do you mean by what WE charge you? I don’t charge you anything, the hospital does…do you really expect me to make as much as someone who works at a fast food joint…

    • Ayn Rand

      IMHO We should stop using the health care system TOTALLY unless you get into a serious accident and need dire medical attention. Alternative remedies are far better. Never had a vaccine in my life, and am still alive today!

    • Ralfine

      Now you know why you aren’t allowed to travel to Cuba.

    • Ol’ Grey Ghost

      “The essential problem of medical care in America is not who pays for it. The problem is that it’s insanely expensive.”

      You miss the point that it is insanely expensive because of who pays, and who doesn’t pay, for it. When healthcare providers are required by law to provide services to some people who cannot possibly be expected to pay for the services rendered to them, then in order to break even, healthcare providers must charge more of those who can pay for their own and a little bit for others. Someone has to eventually pay or the healthcare provider will go out of business.

      If the “Iron Fist” of government would get out of the way of the “Invisible Hand” of the free market, then prices would eventually lower. Look how some services (i.e. Lasik Eye Surgery), not covered by most insurance carriers, have come down in price due to free competition and innovation in the equipment used.

      But many of our benevolent government officials enjoy wielding the “Iron Fist” until we pry it from their cold, dead hands after they naturally pass away (Ted Kennedy is still haunting the Capitol building; pay attention to how many working there quote him).

      Life is just a gamble…

      http://olgreyghost.blogspot.com/2009/11/you-wanna-bet.html

      …and he with the most property at the end of game is not the winner because we all get the same prize – 6 foot by 2 foot by 6 feet deep…

      • Mondobeyondo

        But WHY is it so expensive?

        It’s because of the rules and regulations the government places on doctors, hospitals, pharaceutical companies, etc. They have to be paid. We are literally being wrapped up and bound in our own red tape.

        Say you get a broken arm in, umm, Uganda. You go to the clinic, and the doc stitches you up and wraps your broken arm with a couple of splints. Total cost: Maybe $30. Awful quality of health care, but oh well.

        Get a broken arm while hiking the mountains in Colorado. Awesome scenery huh? You slip on a lizard while walking, and you’ve got a broken arm.

        Ambulance fee: $800
        Hospital bill: $1200
        Insurance co-pay: $1500
        Doctor bill: $700
        Splint for broken appendage: $150
        Advil to ease your pain: $40
        Three hours in the E.R.,, two hours and 57 minutes of which were spent waiting for the doc to call your name: $600

        (I’m exaggerating of course – or maybe I’m not!)

        • Louise in MO

          No, you aren’t exaggerating! I won’t bore you all with the nitty gritty, but is VERY expensive.

        • Ol’ Grey Ghost

          “But WHY is it so expensive?”

          I thought I answered that question…

          “It’s because of the rules and regulations the government places on
          doctors, hospitals, pharaceutical (sic) companies, etc. They have to be paid.
          We are literally being wrapped up and bound in our own red tape.”

          As Ed always said to Johnny, “You are correct, sir!”

          As the government continues to interfere with the workings of the free-market, the market will react by increasing costs to everyone else to make up for the losses created at the other end. It’s like squeezing a half-inflated balloon at one end. The other end blows up till it bursts…

          • Gay Veteran

            the government continues to interfere with the workings of the free-market because the corporations profit more that way

          • mijj

            Gay Veteran > “the government continues to interfere with the workings of the free-market because the corporations profit more that way”

            also worth remembering is: the government interferes in ways advised by the lobbying profiting corporations.

        • 007

          The hospitals have to charge $20.00 dollars for an aspirin so Medicare will pay them .05 cents. It is the screwy system the democrats came up with. If you don’t have insurance you will be charged $20.00. Why? Because the Federal government insists that the hospitals charge you the same rate it is charged.

          Insanity at its finest. Another Democrat program bankrupting hundreds of thousands of Americans a year.

      • mijj

        it’s expensive because it’s run on the profit motive.

        The choice is functional efficiency (maximize health/$) or profit efficiency (maximize profit/$).

        Making one efficient means the other is inefficient. So, choosing to maximize profit means health/$ is inefficient. If health/$ is inefficient, then it needs more $ to get the same level of health – those extra $ are someone’s increased profit.

        And that’s why profit based healthcare is expensive. The health-cost inefficiency is the basis of maximizing profit.

        /Eat the Rich & Vote for Yourself

      • Dee Walker

        The iron fist of government already requires that anyone who shows up to an ER must be treated – by law. WHICH IS WHY ALL THE PEOPLE WHO DON’T HAVE INSURANCE GO TO THE ER. It seems like people are not aware that this money is already being spent on freeloaders. And not only are we all paying for them; visits that should be a $125 office visit cost thousands because the care you receive in the ER is different. They can’t say, “you probably just ate some bad food. Go home and see me in two days if you’re not better.” They have to run a CT scan to be sure you don’t have stomach cancer because if they don’t run every single test on you and you go home and drop dead, they will be sued.

    • GOM

      not a dead end approach. set up to bring revenue. another $ scheme. civil war on the horizon. military security forces take over when they cut back cops. they are being prepped. family insider info…

    • leonard

      Belgium? Ha! My mother moved over there in order to get healthcare after retirement. It’s fabulous!!! You call a doctor, you have your appointment today! If you end up in the emergency room, you go in immediately and they work on you right away. You get out of there and you don’t get a bill that’s bankrupting you. Your insurance will pay.
      I went there for some visits and I tested the health care system. It’s functions so well with people answering the phone and you get your health care.
      In America it’s completely broken. They don’t answer the phone, they don’t get things done, it’s prohibitively expensive and getting worse . The Belgians government spends a lot less money for their Medicare or Medicaid, now that’s small government!
      People have their own homes over there, their own cars with more money in their pockets! I have examined this over there for years! They are the ones that are laughing at the perfectly happy Americans who say that they are all rich and happy!

    • Reynaldo Neggle

      If the govt gave all of us $100 to buy bread, the price of bread would skyrocket. That’s why health care costs so much. If you have insurance or govt entitlements paying you for health care, then the same thing is going to happen. And if your employer pays for your insurance then you don’t even have that to be accountable for. It’s just another subsidy in a long chain of subsidies that have resulted in rising costs of health care for the last 50 years. All Obamacare does is provide the subsidies to even more people, while siphoning the costs out of the taxpayers’ pockets. This can only result in even higher prices for both insurance and health care.

      • mijj

        What makes the US system so healthcare-inefficient is that it’s designed to be a source of profiteering for corporate participants. It’s not designed to be a healthcare system. It designed to be a means of profiteering via healthcare. Ie. healthcare per $spent is low, profits per $spent is high.

        The only way to solve this is be removing healthcare from the market and making healthcare the focus of control, not profit.

      • Reynaldo Neggle

        mijj, the way to solve this is by getting the govt out of the way, rebuilding the insurance industry from the ground up to only cover catastrophic incidents, getting rid of employer health care, and getting people to believe again that when you go to the doctor nine times out of ten it should be for something that you pay for out of pocket instead of people using insurance to cover every hangnail, scratch, and sniffle. In other words, get rid of the subsidies, mandated and otherwise.

        • mijj

          “government” includes corporate power structures.

          Corporate power structures will maximize their power gain for minimum effort. Ie. being paid for providing healthcare, while not actually doing so is their goal. (This nirvana has been achieved by the music corporations via Copyright. Ie. they get paid for doing nothing because they have been given the “right”.)

          So, if you think healthcare is important, corporate power and the profit motive needs to be crushed. Otherwise, there will be very little healthcare and very much profiteering.

  • Round Objects

    So Michael, removing my comments about how good we have it here in Australia within 10 minutes of it being posted and after 2 readers liked it! What was wrong with it? Why was I censored?

    • MichaelfromTheEconomicCollapse

      I didn’t censor any of your comments. Some comments get caught by the automated filter and they have to wait in the moderation queue until I can get to them.

      Michael

  • Nexusfast123

    Health care in the US is unique to the US. A Kafkaesque monstrosity. A recent report highlights the built in and non value adding costs that are embedded in insurance companies and the inefficient procurement of drugs. The cost of this is estimated to be over $500billion.

    The current offering Obamacare does not address any of the above and other issues. It is merely a band-aid on a broken system that is re-pleat with vested interests.

    I am glad I live in a country with a universal health system.

  • MiniBooger

    Obamacare is a travesty and we can only hope that Congress defunds it. Obama has cherry-picked the data to make it appear that it will be implemented in an equitable fashion. When the IRS, who is chartered to implement it, doesn’t want it, there’s your sign. Obamacare isn’t going to solve a thing as there will still be 30 million without health care. For California alone, the premiums will increase by 198%. No one understands the exchange database and states are instituting bureaucracies where it was expected that the individuals would do the work themselves. This, of course, results in even more money being spent. What a train wreck!

  • Hank

    The dopes on the hill are crapping their pants because they passed a bill (ObamaCare) that has provisions in it that says they will pay for their own health care. A bill that they never read! And now, the hypocrites are screaming at the President to stop or change that provision to make the taxpayers pay for it. Don`t these ignorant lawmakers realize that the President cannot change or block any provision? That`s supposed to be their job. These lawmakers deserve to get what they are doing to the rest of the people.

    • MiniBooger

      Oh, but he has changed provisions. All of a sudden, select businesses are getting waivers so they don’t have to participate in the program. He’s extended the deadline by one year for employers. When the states realized that they could not impose fines on those that weren’t buying coverage, the IRS hurriedly wrote regulations that now conflict with the law. It’s a bloody mess. I don’t disagree with you that they dopes on the hill didn’t read it, but better late than never and I support their efforts to defund it. The entire government architecture was established with 18 pages. Obamacare exceeds 2,000 pages. Overly complicated, ya think?

  • Rebecca in TN

    I agree with the concept that hard working people should not have to pay for others, however, lots of people are hardworking and are insanely underpaid. My experience is that most of the people in America who are high paid really don’t work all that hard. They usually have assistants that do all the work. Doctors, lawyers, etc, all have assistants that do most of their work for them. Just because you make a high salary doesn’t mean you are hardworking. I make a pretty high salary and I did a lot of hard work to get where I am now, however, I do significantly LESS work now than I did back when I only made 50k.

    • GSOB

      Sounds like a personal problem projected to stereotype everyone else.

    • jaxon64

      please don’t ever lump doctors and lawyers together. When lawyers start working 15 to 18 hour shifts and are on call 7 days a week then you can begin to compare the two…but even then lawyers don’t have tens of thousands in malpractice insurance, yearly continuing ed courses, re-licensing fees, hospital privelege fees and stacks and stacks of paperwork and forms that cannot be written by a secretary–the treating physician must document every tx encounter himself–hours of paperwork per week ( most of it just to cover our butts from our litigious lawyers looking to sue for anything they can think up)

    • Louise in MO

      Doctor’s assistants do not do “all of the work” for doctors. I worked in that position for years.

      Doctors spend 10 to 12 years in medical school, internship, residency. They must keep up on their specialty which requires hours and hours per month.

      I have also worked as an administrative assistant for men who could hardly spell, much less write their own letters. These guys definitely don’t do all of the work. They make huge salaries and expect their underlings to work for far less.

  • Mondobeyondo

    Someone else paying for our health care system? That’s socialism, isn’t it?

    What happens when you run out of other peoples’ money, as Margaret Thatcher famously said?

    An interesting angle: See and research how other countries’ health systems work. Are they socialist? Do they provide health care for all their citizens? Birth to death ratios? Etc…

    I would do it. but it’s 5:00am and I am extremely sleep deprived.

  • condaggitt

    Michael:

    Its time to think like a black person…..do not report income hide assets….keep a low profile, and never divulge any extra info , so you can get on medicaid….and get subsidies from ohbahhmacare…..work the numbers…..

  • squashpants

    My wife will turn 65 next February, and I will turn 65 in 2016. Since enrollment in Medicare Part A satisfies the individual mandate of Obamacare, I have decided that we will wait and enroll in Medicare/A and until we are both enrolled, pay the fine for not having insurance. To me, it is ridiculous to pay hundreds of dollars a month for an insurance policy when we would probably spend the amount of the deductible for what medical costs we typically incur in a year. So we would pay out of pocket for our care and then the premiums for the insurance above that. It makes more sense to simply pay out of pocket for our doctor visits, and hope for some reduction in that from Medicare. What do you guys think?

    • GSOB

      “National Health Insurance means combining the efficiency of the Postal Service with the compassion of the I.R.S. … and the cost accounting of the Pentagon. “

  • Mondobeyondo

    Obamacare cares about who or what cares about the federal government. Big Pharma, yada yada. If it lines their wallets or purses, it’s great.

    Everyone or everything else = “collateral damage”

  • grumpyhillbilly

    Fascism in the US is alive and well. Obamacare was a gift to the insurance companies. Insurance is what has inflated healthcare cost.

  • voltaic

    A perverse health insurance system run by for-profit entities that have to show larger and larger profits to survive is the main reason for horribly expensive healthcare. This writer, who bypassed the fact that most other countries find for-profit healthcare abhorrent, ignores the financial destruction caused by these for-profit administrative behemoths. US pays the most for healthcare and receives some of the worst results. But this “writer ignores this fact as well. Most bankruptcies in US are caused by medical bills and that would not be the case in any other developed country. Obamacare is a beast that was written for the benefit of the health insurance companies, not the people. Universal healthcare is the only way to limit costs and the outsize profits of godless, soulless, profit-at-all-costs health insurance companies.

    • GSOB

      The main reason,…..

      It’s been a government subsidized and managed since 1933 and it will cause this country to implode, i.e. bankrupty.

  • GSOB

    Thank you Lord Jesus for this day, August 4th 2013 Sunday.

    Amen

    “If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it’s free.” –
    P.J. O’Rourke (1993)

    Aurora CO

    God bless everyone in the whole wide world, especially my mommy and my daddy.

  • jakartaman

    You vote into office Socialist – this is what you can expect. Joe the Plummer hit the nail – re-distribute the wealth. You will just run out of other peoples wealth!!

    • ian

      no pal, this is capitalism. Capitalism at it’s finest an most brutal.

    • mijj

      lol .. some socialist. Spending all his time and effort empowering and enriching the elite at the cost of everyone else.

  • sherlock32555

    People remember when they wanted one payer system this is the way to go about getting it. Make it so people cannot afford it and bam we are all just like other socialist countries. Here it comes and get use to not getting the care if you are a useless eater!

  • markthetruth

    The issue here is our Kindergarten Congress is on Recess again. Do they actually work !!! Or Just Speak Lies and take no Actions and take the huge Salary and Benefits . No wonder it’s always a ” Lame Duck Session ” .when they do come back.

    the end…

  • FleetingShadow

    The medical industry is NOT about health, it’s about drugs and profit! If people truly want good health insurance, the first step is to take responsibility for their own bodies through nutrition.

    • Ralfine

      All industry is about profit.

      People don’t open a company to provide a service or to create jobs. The prime reason is to make profit.

      • shogun_01

        Profit at an affordable rate to customers, which is not the case here

        • Ralfine

          If people don’t have a choice, what choice do they have?

          • MomOf3Boys

            Mexico :D

  • markthetruth

    The Issue here is;

    Congress on Kindergarten Recess again

    Congress living on a big Salary and Benefits for life

    Congress only comes back for ” Lame Duck Sessions”

    Congress is in with the Corps and Wall Street.

    Congress is the king of Talk no Action.

    How Many years have we all heard there going to help build the Middle Class Up . Well if Up is Down their doing a good job.

    They all talk the talk we want to hear, but when Elected they don’t walk the walk.

    Fact: We have no Trust in our Leaders but Some how they get Elected !!!

    the end…

  • markthetruth

    Truth :

    ” Remember we who get kicked in testicles are left holding the bag. ”

    the end…

  • Wally

    Ted Cruz told Glenn Beck the other day that the American people have no clue what is coming. It is a 1000x worse then what is even being reported by talk radio. Think about this, in some socialized medicine countries when calling for an ambulance they ask for you your government id number. If you are old or have a history of medical issues they will not come to pick you up. My bosses mother needed emergency surgery in Canada and had to wait 8 days for a hospital bed. She made it but barely. They ended up doing a different emergency surgery just to stabilize her so they could do the originally planned surgery. That and worse is coming to america.

  • Renee

    My husband and I are in our early 50’s and are both in fairly good health. We have catastrophic insurance because we both work for small businesses. Our premiums in 1 year went from 3300.00 to 6400.00 this coming calender year. We have to pay more then 7500.00 before we can see a benefit. We called the Affordability Healthcare Act specialist at our insurance company and she said it would be to our benefit to stick to our insurance program for now until January 2014 since we are Granfathered in our policy. She said things are going to change dramatically and people should prepare for the upcoming costs that will now have to be in any policy taken out after March 2010. I think all of Congress, President, Unions, Goverment workers and anyone else who loves this act should have to stand in line with me and my husband to see the Doctor it is the fair way…right?

    • MichaelfromTheEconomicCollapse

      Very good comment.

      Michael

    • Mudpie

      Cruelty. How else to say it? What they are doing to you is vile, sick, and well, words fail.

      No longer America.

      Amerika.

      Enjoy.

  • El Pollo de Oro

    Having done a lot of traveling overseas, I’ve seen a variety of different health care systems. Some privatized, some public, some public/private hybrids. I’ve yet to meet an American expatriate who had anything good to say about the horribly broken health insurance system in The Banana Republic of America. And under the Unaffordable Care Act, millions of Americans will continue to pay a fortune for crappy, overpriced insurance plans. The wolves (who have names like Blue Cross and Aetna) are still guarding the henhouse.

    “Obamacare is the perfection of crony capitalism that’s being sold as something that’s wonderful for the people. Insanely expensive care provided by crony capitalist cartels that have totally opaque pricing and are in cahoots with the central state that supposedly regulates them.”—Charles Hugh Smith

    “Obamacare is essentially forcing us to buy a defective corporate product.”—Chris Hedges

    “I share the right wing’s critique of Obamacare. It’s a disastrous bill. It was written by corporate lobbyists.”—Chris Hedges

    “You need some health insurance? We’re going to privatize it. We’re going to make you buy
    from our pals that sell insurance. That’s what they call Obamacare.”—Gerald Celente

  • Trailer Park Investor

    Don’t worry about it.
    FEMA camps will give you all the health care you deserve, and then some.

    • GSOB

      Perhaps,

      There is a lot of good info to mined at the web site.

  • josh

    Baby Boomers won’t be able to retire.

    • squashpants

      ??? Really? I am retired, and doing fine. And I have a strategy for dealing with Obamacare that will not destroy our lifestyle (which is very frugal indeed). Now, the SHingTF is another matter…

  • Dave Webb

    Very good article!

    Obamacare is a travesty of justice.

    If Obamacare is a tax it has to be
    re-voted in. The law was misrepresented when it was put through the Congress. There are plenty of records denying that it was a tax. But the Court did not throw the law off the books as being misrepresented to Congress. Why? So we have to pay to get it done? Sounds like lawyers are going to make a lot of money on Obamacare.
    If something is misrepresented to our legislatures then it is not Constitutional to apply it as something
    it was not represented as to begin with. It was not represented as a tax.

    Our “system” is wrong. It is wrong because insurance companies decide how everyone is treated after they are diagnosed. That treatment option should never be legalized. Some things need to stay a judgment call of the attending doctor. Especially since our knowledge of things doubles every other day or less.
    Our progression of medicine has changed
    drastically over the years. The insurance industry has not.
    If tomorrow someone came up with a pill
    that would kill cancer in the body for a fraction of the cost of chemotherapy the doctors could not use it. It is legally binding on doctors to use chemotherapy as the only treatment for cancer. That and billions of dollars for surgery.
    The insurance industry legally binds the doctors with financing.
    Under our current system, if it had been in place, we would still be treating people with leeches to pull the bad blood out of their systems. No matter how many people weakened and died from it.
    Don’t get me wrong. There are parasites
    out there that might treat disease better than the ones we are using in a doctor’s office.
    Social medicine is government medicine.
    Under this plan the weak are allowed to die instead of being saved. Look up the statistics in Great Britain if you can actually find them. Probably covered by the secrets act. It is simply economics.
    The less old people surviving the less expensive it is. Personally think the Hemlock Society of Britain is alive and well.
    The basic idea is you come into this world naked and you leave this world in the same naked state. The idea behind medicine is to take that money from you before you leave.
    If they happen to need an autopsy, they make darn sure you body will never come back. They dice and slice all your organs in the name of
    investigation, including your dead brain. You can see they do not believe in a resurrection. Well, they believe it is possible so they make darn sure no one has a body to return to.
    But after you are broken financially someone has to pay, right? So they invented charity medicine for the financially broken people to use. They called it Medicaid.
    Now on a social security pension you might receive 1200-2000 dollars a month. On Medicaid they will pay to keep you in a warehouse called a nursing home to the tune of 4800-7000 a month. That of course is after they steal everything you
    ever owned in your lifetime. Don’t worry about estate planning. They will allow you money for burial. No one else except a lawyer is likely to get a dime.
    So someone please tell me why anyone would want to work hard for the rest of their lives? Under this system there is no inheritance for your children.
    Not unless you are fantastically wealthy to begin with. For most of us out side of Bill Gates and
    people like him, the IRS has made very sure that most of us will never be successful business people. The worst enemy of small business is the rules by which the IRS operate.
    The rules of inheritance are just as stupid. Under these rules a lawyer takes a lot of money right off the top of the estate.
    Intelligent people do not work hard.
    That is the message by the people that make the rules. They respect the deadbeat a lot more than they do any of the hard working people out there.

    • Chaz

      I have read the responses to the above article blaming doctors, hospitals, nurses, insurance companies, fat cats, etc. I see no information about the hefty amount that government over-regulation and a total lack of tort reform adds to each dollar charged healthcare. Why do we NEVER see these figures published anywhere? Could it be that our current administration, lawmakers, and left-leaning media don’t want the rank-and-file to know?

  • elightmenter

    Once again the wrong assumptions… those who don’t pay for health care DON’T EVEN HAVE A JOB. Not because they don’t want to, but because there are no jobs. To enlighten the usual ignorance that your affirmations are based on: The purpose of having a government is the redistribution of wealth… This means that the ones that earn more, pay more, so those who earn less have access to education, health care, etc.

    • MichaelfromTheEconomicCollapse

      Actually, most of the people in America that have their health care subsidized actually have a job or some other form of income.

      Michael

      • Ralfine

        They are probably not paid enough to afford health care.

        Used up by their employers and then thrown away to take care of by the tax payers.

        That’s how the tax and insurance payers subsidise the corporations.

  • davidmpark

    A lot of the regulars and Mike know about our situation; so if nobody minds a long diatribe, I’ve got some insights that might help the debate.

    From the perspectives of paying for others insurance, not having insurance, working in a hospital, and having a severe medical need for a loved one I have seen many aspects of the health industry. The costs are high, and there are many reasons for it.

    The doctors have higher costs than most people think. One of the specialists the wife sees is absent for 4 months due to Military duty. The military pays his malpractice insurance. Due to the previous cases brought by multiple law firms in the past and many in the present makes a doctor’s insurance very expensive – and we have to pay for that each visit.

    Doctors, nurses, and specialists have very high medical school costs. They have to go for many more years to get their MD than a normal 8 year PhD. Those costs are normally paid for in student loans. Guess who grants those loans.

    And hospitals also have a lot of support staff. Chefs, cooks, housekeeping, maintenance, billing specialists, transcriptionists, administrators, etc, etc. They need their pay also.

    Now, here’s where it hits the fan: all of the medical community is under very severe government oversight. They must meet those requirements to pinpoint precision on a daily basis.

    Now, I agree with Mike’s assessments and thank him for not including the disabled (or caregivers) on his list at first. Very thoughtful. :) There is a lot that can be done.

    First is that people should have the right to determine their own healthcare. Ditch Obamacare, completely. Next, we should scale back on Medicare and Medicaid. Now, I don’t mean across the board cuts; we should cut down on who can get it and for what reasons. I think it should be for those who have no real ability to care for themselves. Anyone who can should do everything humanly possible to have some form of healthcare.

    Second, we should cut back on certain Federal and State restrictions on the health system to allow for more home diagnosis technology. I understand that nothing can replace the good old country doctor, but we don’t have the funds nor the time to do it the old fashioned way anymore.

    When I had no insurance, I relied heavily on the books “Where There Is No Doctor” by David Werner, “Where There Is No Dentist” by Murray Dickson, “A Book For Midwives” by Klein, Miller, and Thomson, “A Health Handbook For Women With Disabilities” by Maxwell, Belser, and David, and “Surgical Care at the District Hospital” by WHO/UN. These books are FREE ONLINE; I printed them out at my own cost and followed them to the letter. Saved us a lot of money and our health!

    Years ago, I heard the best definition of progress, “What was the work of Nobel laureates yesterday is the work of amateurs and tinsmiths today.” That’s what we need: technology that can do the triage and either help us with basic first-aid, or walk a person through the more intermediate things like suturing and minor surgery.

    Also, the FDA needs to make things more available as OTC that are over-regulated for non-criminal reasons. I understand and agree that Oxycontin, opiates, and the like should be regulated by prescription. But most other things should be available with video and interactive instructions. DIY healthcare for minor things and checkups. Doctors can then concentrate on the worst of the worst ailments.

    What must be done is a scale back and deregulation with technology and progress coming into play. No more babying the American people. We can handle when we need to.

    • davidmpark

      Dental Cement on Amazon is $24.99 +shipping. Minor surgery kits between $6.45 – $29.95. Sutures at lowest price $3.79.

  • Ralfine

    Is this funny?
    IBM shifted manufacturing to China, then sold the PC business to chinese Lenovo.
    Just seen on TV: Lenovo opened a new plant in North Carolina.

  • F

    There is too much friction in the health care system, too many people moving papers form one desk to the other, and providing no real services. It is giant unproductive mess because paper pusher middle men consume most of the energy in the system.

  • F

    There are only two ways humans interact with the world around them, they try to control nature, or they try to control people.

    Anyone that tries to control nature is good, and humans that try to control others are evil.

  • Lars Lonte

    Lyndon LaRouche and EIR NEWS http://www.larouchepac.com

  • phdinlogic

    The “government” by the people is now controlling the sheeple. We have done this to ourselves by not standing up to the bankers and the “politicians” we elected to represent us.

  • Mondobeyondo

    I’ll get the humor part out of the way first: Don’t go to the Church of the Most High, unless you like smoking marijuana. (insert rim shot here)

    Okay — it’s obvious that healthcare in the U.S. is a colossal failure. For the incredible amount of money spent, we are not getting much in return for our investment. Check out the U.N. birth rates for one of numerous examples.

    Something’s wrong, obviously.

    President Obama thinks he has the solution in socialized healthcare, i.e. Obamacare.. (Hey,it works for Sweden!) But is that the answer? I dunno. A few observations….

    1) We eat some of the most unhealthy foods on the planet. Processed, genetically modified Frankenfoods.

    2) We drink everything from Coca Cola to Red Bull(bleep) to Jack Daniels to Powerade. Powerade uses high fructose corn syrup. Gatorade (dextrose and sucrose) does not. “But the French drink wine each dinner”, you say. Well, yes…but they also eat a healthier, more balanced diet. No Le Big Mac’s in an average French diet. French fries? Monsieur, ils est Amerique.

    3) We take drugs for EVERYTHING. Got an issue? Pop a pill. Check out your favorite evening newscast. Good grief… what did we do about allergies, sleep disorders and stuff back in, say, 1955? “Luuuucy! Ya need a box of Kleenex?” “No Ricky, I have a box of Sominex right here by the bed!”

    Money will NOT fix the problem, though. The only thing that throwing around money will do is make the rest of us more broke.

  • Mondobeyondo

    A general question to all y’all out there in the walnut gallery (peanuts are getting expensive)

    What do you do, or would you do, if you or a family member got sick?

  • John

    Americans think that government involvement in health care means more bureaucracy and waste, but the opposite is true. Americans pay twice what other developed nations do for health care. Much of the American healthcare dollar goes to pay for overhead.

  • RarefiedSnotress

    Why does it seem odd to go from an article that discusses the high under-employment rate to an article that somewhat castigates the plan to create better health insurance for those who can’t afford it or don’t have access.

    • ian

      because most people on this site are heartless conservatives.

  • bob cratchette

    what would all the bums that pay for nothing do if the ones paying the bills just quit their job also and become obamas bitch also

    • Hillbillyhustle

      We might get higher wages, better food, health insurance, a good education and much more. We are all dependent on each other for this economy to thrive. If the workers stop working then maybe our politicians will listen. Ive been Obama’s bitch since President Bush. Thanks for the free stuff!! They say laziness is a sign of intelligence.

  • Vagrant Viking

    The main cause for America’s Health Care failure, is the failure of the majority of our citizens to be responsible for their personal health. If the traitors who are obese, heavy drinkers, drug users, not physically active, and/or just plain stupid in their activities. Were to be responsible for their personal health, our medical cost would decrease by at least 50-75%. 85% of the patients in a hospital are there because of their personal action or lack of activity and lack of self-control. Check with Google and the data supports the percentages given. Individuals who are not responsible for their personal health should have a 90% surcharge for being a traitor of America’s future.

  • Mudpie

    Shut up and pay your fair share!

    Seriously, I have long wondered when the first tangible pain would be felt from Obamacare, and your reference to paying much more in insurance is just that. Maybe we will have a revolution as more and more people get those same letters. As the job market freezes up because now you cannot spend as much as you were on discretionary stuff, and it was not that much to begin with. As finally you and other producers get angry and wonder why your relatives came over here and forefathers fought in Iwo Jima, Gettysburg, and other bloody places for a freedom that is now not lasting in the least, but dying rather quickly.Land of the free home of the brave? How about land of the shackled and home of the slave? Just calling a spade a spade . . .

    • Mudpie

      By the way, I mean a peaceful revolution at the ballot box, lol. Don’t need the NSA targeting me, I am as fat and pacifist as they come.

      • mijj

        you will be targeted for your political and economic thought crimes.

  • Boo-urns

    What is perverse about the system is that we allow Big Pharma and the healthcare industry as a whole free reign over us to charge astronomical amounts for even basic healthcare. Of course everyone wants someone else to pay for their healthcare, because almost no one can afford it.

    (And no, if you pay your insurance premiums you are not paying for your healthcare either — you are paying a teeny tiny portion and shuffling the primary cost off to someone else. The vast majority of US citizens do not “pay for their own healthcare.”)

    If food was so expensive that we needed food insurance to pay for it, there would be riots in the streets. Why we allow the healthcare industry to get away with blatant highway robbery is beyond me. This is where our focus needs to be, but since we are governed exclusively by unelected special interests with deep pockets this will never happen unless we, the people, do something about it. Something radical.

  • James Godson

    The claims that healthcare in the US is too expensive shows how devalued Federal Reserve Notes have become. Plus doctors as well as teachers, firemen, police, & public servants used to chose those professions for altruistic reasons – not to get rich, but to serve their fellow man.
    There are other programs that are exempt from the Affordable Care Act like Medi-Share and other faith-based medical cost sharing that offer lower-cost practitioners.

  • A D

    The system as we knew is it GONE, it will be a system of quagmire and waiting lines and death panels. Oboma has single handily finished off what he said he was going to do.
    50% of the people piled up in lawn chairs living off welfare/foodstamps/hud/free cell phones/unlimited freebies and getting illegals amnesty. The Socialist Democrat party of progressives has dismantled the USA.

  • Not American

    Should the “parasites” be brought to the FEMA camps then! To make “hard working” people pleased? This site smells like Satan.

  • A D

    End result, big Gov will tell people who and when they can get medical treatment aka.. death panels.

  • FounderChurch

    Health Care by FounderChurch at Gmail

    Let’s get a few things straight. Instead of everyone popping off about what they know very little about.

    1. Health Care SHOULD NOT be called an industry. It is charity and has always been a charity since time began. Therefore no one performing it should be paid to do it, and that includes doctors and nurses. If people are paid to do it, then it is not charitable, which is what it has always fundamentally been.

    The government and business have no business paying for any of it. We need to encourage churches and families to do it out of a spirit of charity. Therefore it is NOT a part of the economy, and shouldn’t be dragging down the economy the way it is.

    2. Like every other activity of society it should be totally privatized. Anything government wants done should be done by contracting it out to private firms, even Congressional staffing should be contracted out, and that includes everything the FBI and CIA does. The whole military should be composed of civilian Reserves and State National Guards. Everyone in America should be a civilian soldier working to earn his living and giving back to the nation by serving in the Reserves. Regular military should be reduced to the bare minimum.

    3. Government’s entire job is to referee and umpire the system and make laws and rules that everyone have to follow. Elected officials should not be paid, but should serve for the honor and pleasure of serving the nation and their fellow citizens. They should contract out every single thing that they want to see done.

    4. No health care should ever be free. People can and should contribute what they can to the charities that care for them. But most health care should be in the family or church.

    5. The problem with our health care today is it is half government and half capitalist. Such a hybrid monster can never work. Either make it all government like the military health care system, or make it entirely capitalist like is used to be. The mix we are stuck with creates a system that has the worst aspects of both capitalism, and socialism with none of the benefits of either.

  • Reynaldo Neggle

    That’s exactly what happens when you subsidize the consumer of a product, the price of that product ALWAYS goes up. What we are seeing in health care costs is because consumers, through insurance and govt entitlements, have been getting subsidized for years, and now that Obamacare is going to subsidize another 40 million of us for insurance, then insurance has to go up. Compounding the problem, when you subsidize people for their health care you circumvent any motivation for people to actually manage their own health because they’re no longer accountable for the cost of their own sloth and gluttony, insurance and govt will pay for it. They have no idea how much it actually costs and they don’t have to know. They don’t even have to care.

    If there was no insurance and we were paying for doctor visits out of pocket, a trip to the doctor would cost $25 and a trip to the emergency room would cost about $100 and people wouldn’t be going to a doctor every time they had a hangnail. People don’t have health care because they lack insurance, they don’t have health care because it is simply unaffordable, which itself is because of insurance and subsidies.

    You try to explain this to the collectivist, left-wing neo-fascist progressives and it just goes right over their heads. They can’t understand basic math, free thinking, self determination, and accountability.

  • Dee Walker

    I think this article is a bit one sided. It does not mention all the people who go to er’s everyday, for sore throats and stomach aches, that we are all paying for already. Is that fair? I would rather people have to pay for their own health care than to make me pay for it by subsidizing your OUTRAGEOUSLY EXPENSIVE emergency room visits through my increased rates and taxes. I never hear that mentioned when people are complaining about OBAMACARE. My premiums have not gone up, at all, and from what I understand premiums in CA and NY (I think) are actually lower. I don’t think it is a perfect law but there are benefits that you didn’t even mention.

  • IdaNo!

    “………… the family’s net cost for the insurance would be $7,421.” That is a MONTHLY PREMIUM of $618.42 for that family AFTER what you called a ‘subsidy’ (in one sentence), and a ‘tax credit’ in another.

    “So who pays for that?” You ask.

    “You and I do through our tax dollars.” And answered. Not quite ‘the whole truth, so help you…..”. What you are saying, it seems to me, is that the family got something that don’t deserve. YES they did. They got SCREWED for the PRIVILEGE of PAYING health insurance PREMIUMS, for which they may have received NOTHING, so the uppity ups of health care insurance companies could take home;

    HUMANA; “…….replacing long-standing chief executive Michael McCallister………who still serves as company chairman, received total compensation valued at $8.4 million.”

    CEO Bruce Broussard; $2.9 Million

    UNITED HEALTH CARE GROUP; CEO Stephen Hemsley 2012: $13.89 million

    David Wichmann, chief financial officer: $8.5 million

    United Health Care; CEO Gail Boudreaux $8.5 million
    ETC………….. All the theoretical family you describe “got” was freedom from paying income taxes on a portion of the insurance premiums they paid. You, and I, got exactly the same break! Your argument has no merit!

  • IdaNo!

    Is this site just a shill? No comments on this site in 17 days and my post, 20 minutes ago, is not present? Hummmmm

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