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50 Percent Of American Workers Make Less Than 28,031 Dollars A Year

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Real Median Household Income 2014The Social Security Administration has just released wage statistics for 2013, and the numbers are startling.  Last year, 50 percent of all American workers made less than $28,031, and 39 percent of all American workers made less than $20,000.  If you worked a full-time job at $10 an hour all year long with two weeks off, you would make $20,000.  So the fact that 39 percent of all workers made less than that amount is rather telling.  This is more evidence of the declining quality of the jobs in this country.  In many homes in America today, both parents are working multiple jobs in a desperate attempt to make ends meet. Our paychecks are stagnant while the cost of living just continues to soar.  And the jobs that are being added to the economy pay a lot less than the jobs lost in the last recession.  In fact, it has been estimated that the jobs that have been created since the last recession pay an average of 23 percent less than the jobs that were lost.  We are witnessing the slow-motion destruction of the middle class, and very few of our leaders seem to care.

The “average” yearly wage in America last year was just $43,041.  But after accounting for inflation, that was actually worse than the year before

American paychecks shrank last year, just-released data show, further eroding the public’s purchasing power, which is so vital to economic growth.

Average pay for 2013 was $43,041 — down $79 from the previous year when measured in 2013 dollars. Worse, average pay fell $508 below the 2007 level, my analysis of the new Social Security Administration data shows.

Flat or declining average pay is a major reason so many Americans feel that the Great Recession never ended for them. A severe job shortage compounds that misery not just for workers but also for businesses trying to profit from selling goods and services.

Average pay declined in 59 of the 60 levels of worker pay the government reports each October.

And please keep in mind that “average pay” is really skewed by the millionaires and billionaires at the top end of the spectrum.

Median pay in 2013 was just $28,031.02.  That means that 50 percent of American workers made less than that number, and 50 percent of American workers made more than that number.

Here are some more numbers from the report that the Social Security Administration just released…

-39 percent of American workers made less than $20,000 last year.

-52 percent of American workers made less than $30,000 last year.

-63 percent of American workers made less than $40,000 last year.

-72 percent of American workers made less than $50,000 last year.

I don’t know about you, but those numbers are deeply troubling to me.

It has been estimated that it takes approximately $50,000 a year to support a middle class lifestyle for a family of four, and so the fact that 72 percent of all workers make less than that amount shows how difficult it is for families that try to get by with just a single breadwinner.

The way that our economy is structured now, both parents usually have to work as hard as they can just to pay the bills.

But there was one group of Americans that did see their incomes actually increase last year.

Those making over 50 million dollars had their pay increase by an average of $12.8 million in 2013.

For everyone else, the news was not good.

And of course this is a trend that has been going on for a long time.

Posted below is a chart that comes from the Federal Reserve.  It shows how real median household income in the United States has declined since the year 2000…

Real Median Household Income 2014

Meanwhile, the cost of living has continued to rise at a steady pace.

Needless to say, this is putting a tremendous squeeze on the middle class.  With each passing day, more Americans are losing their spots in the middle class and this has pushed government dependence to an all-time high.  According to the U.S. Census Bureau, 49 percent of all Americans now live in a home that receives money from the government each month.  This is completely and totally unsustainable, but our long-term economic problems just keep getting worse.

Our politicians have stood by as millions upon millions of good paying jobs have been shipped out of the country.  Millions of other middle class jobs have been lost to technology.  This has resulted in intense competition for the middle class jobs that remain.

And at this point we are even losing lots of lower paying retail jobs.  For example, it is being reported that Sears plans to close 110 more stores and lay off more than 6,000 workers.  Sears says that the report “isn’t accurate”, but it isn’t denying that stores will be closed either…

In an email to USA Today, Sears spokesman Howard Riefs said the store count and closures “isn’t accurate,” but did not provide store closures or layoff numbers.

“As we stated in our (second quarter earnings report), we disclosed that we would be closing unprofitable stores as leases expire and in some cases will accelerate closings when it is economically prudent. And that we would consider closing additional stores during the remainder of the year,” Riefs said. “Make no mistake, we believe the store will continue to play an integral role in our transformation, however, if a store is not generating a profit, it is straightforward that the store should be considered for closure.”

No matter how many stores Sears does end up closing over the next few months, the truth is that our economy is a complete and total mess at this point.

Our politicians and the mainstream media are trying to put a happy face on everything, but the cold, hard numbers prove that we are not anywhere close to where we were prior to the last recession.

Because it is so difficult to find a good job in America today, I often recommend to people that they should consider starting their own businesses.

But thanks to the bureaucratic control freaks in the Obama administration and in our state governments, small business ownership in America today is at an all-time low.  It is almost as if they don’t want the “little guy” to win.  Every avenue of prosperity for the middle class is under assault, and there does not appear to be much hope that this will change any time soon.

And the truly frightening thing is that this is about as good as things are going to get for the middle class.  We are rapidly approaching the next major wave of our long-term economic decline, but that is a topic for a future article.

  • K

    Yes Sears continued weakness is a bad sign. But Walmart is also complaining about declining profits. The store of the future, Amazon is even starting to show some weakness. When you look at the economic state of this Country, bleak does not even cover it anymore.

    • danbax

      one reason is because EVERYONE has less money to spend due to mandatory healthcare !

    • MIchael in Chicago

      Sears, JC Penny, Best Buy and Radio Shack will all be gone after the next economic down turn. Wal-Mart might finally be forced to close stores. Unemployment will magically go down.

      • David Mowers

        Uh no because Congress changed the Fed to allow it the ability to loan money in any amount necessary to save large institutions or preferred companies.

        McDonald’s is already on the taxpayer til.

      • sharonsj

        It was just announced that Sears, Target, and a bunch of companies are going to close more stores. Approximately 5000 people will lose their jobs. The unemployment numbers are manipulated–as we all know!

  • Born Again

    Well than 50% of Americans don’t have any or very little education, so they work minimum wage jobs.
    I don’t see any problems in my (mechanical engineering) field and jobs are still paid very good especially if you have some experience, and there are plenty of them. Times when uneducated worker was able to make $25 or more per hour are gone and they will never come back.

    • DesertPaine

      Why is it that the ‘other 50%’ fervently believe that they should make for their uneducated labor the same that you do for having a skilled talent that is in demand?

      It seems highly unlikely that the nation will get back to the place where common sense laws of physics trump fairy tale social thoeries.

      • matti81

        “common sense laws of physics”

        Are you trying to equate laws of physics to the ideological construct that is economic theory?

    • K

      Not everyone has the where with all, to go to college. No one except you, was talking about 25 dollar an hour jobs. No what the story was about, was people who are willing to work, should make enough to survive. You pick a very strange,on line ID, for someone so lacking in mercy.

      • DesertPaine

        K, your thoughts reflect exactly my comment above. What, other than wanting it to be so, makes ‘willingness to work’ automatically align with making enough to survive? In the laws of economics and common sense, there is no conceivable connection between the two. To believe they do is to cherry pick the choicest data points and leave the rest of the equation behind. Economics is not about mercy. Societies that insist otherwise fail. Every time in history so far.

        • K

          What you seem to be describing, is the economic version of survival of the fittest. There is another term for survival of the fittest, the law of the jungle. Societies that follow that path, also do not seem to last long either.

          • edward dennis

            Exactly right, K. Amazing how so many cheer the dog-eat-dog model of economics, right up to the part where there’s no dogs left. This affects us all. A society based on consumption won’t survive if half your base cannot consume. Screw all the economic ‘theories’. How about reality? Inequality of this scale has no option but to lead to eventual collapse, then what with the 25/hr ‘good jobs’ then? They want people to work work work, but don’t want to pay pay pay, then whinge that we got where we are. Really?

          • DesertPaine

            Economics is called ‘the dark science’ for a reason. It doesn’t make for good cheering either way. Economics says 2 + 2 = 4. Social engineering makes 2 + 2 = 1. Or 6, or 8; whatever is needed to acommodate the desirable answer. These are the economic ‘theories’ that cannot ever last long. Yes, a consumer base cannot survive. The anser is to get the consumer base back to reality, not destroy the most sustainable elements of productivity.

          • DesertPaine

            Maybe it is. But applying labels imports many other components that may or may not be true. What IS true is that when society gets to believing that the value of the productivity of an engineering education is equal to that of the productivity of flipping hamburgers, the end is near.

          • K

            I have seen no one suggest that. A workman is worthy of his hire.That is a very old standard. When someone pays less than a living wage, they are no different than a thief. They steal from all the rest of us. We who pay for the food stamps, that employee now needs. The medicaid that employee now needs. Now if you say, do not give them those things. Then are you not saying, those 50% are lesser people, let them die. I hope that is not how you feel. For if you have reached that point, no words I can say, are likely to reach you.

          • DesertPaine

            A workman is worthy of the value of his hire, not his hire per se. S/he is worth no more and worth no less than the value of that work. If he receives less then the agreed wage, the employer is a thief. If he receives more, then he is a thief.

            In the world’s most obscenely over-consuming country, there is a long way between arguing over the value of a wage and dying.

          • K

            Without the safety net, these people could indeed die. The fact that you have no problem with other people making up, for what you will not pay. Tells me all I need to know. May you one day, see the difference, between theory, and the real world.

          • DesertPaine

            Today’s safety net — unemployment compensation, free or subsidized medical care, child care, food stamps, free phones, &c &c &c &c &c &c &c &c.

            I draw no unemployment. I have no medical care. No one pays my child care. I pay for whatever food I can afford. I do not have a telephone. I do not have a car, and ride a bicycle the 6 miles to town.

            No one owes me anything in my ‘real world’. To demand that I have first claim on someone else’s labor is a radical idea for me. If you have things in life I celebrate it, not begrudge it. And I will NEVER say that it is your job to bail me out, Tim.

          • VigilanteCaregiver

            You’ve never had to deal with these programs have you?

            Think of them metaphorically as a mousetrap baited with a dollar. There really is no money in these programs and not everyone who qualifies can get assistance. The reality of government welfare is it’s a trap.

            Commendable that you’ve done your planning well and may you never end up in the trap.

          • VigilanteCaregiver

            Exactly K. Thank you! :)

            I would make one change in that the safety net should be in the hands of the Church and not the government. It shouldn’t be a tax, but of genuine charity.

          • VigilanteCaregiver

            Lord of the Flies scenario.

      • Born Again

        So why you crying when millions are crossing border and your immigration system is falling apart. They will take part in low paid jobs and increase your crime rate to oblivion.
        Who is going to pay for your security but people who make decent money.
        I am sick of paying for useless eaters who expect to live middle class life.
        So shut up, you are just troll on this blog and change your ID to QOO QOO.

        • K

          Thank-you for showing your true self. Would you care to tell us, what your final solution is? You know for the useless eaters.

          • Jules McPherson

            Climb into your Rapture Mobile. haha,. I am glad my parents got it right the first time. NOT born again.

          • Born Again

            Stick your 100 euros per week for food up your…
            I spend three times more per week to feed my family good food. I am originally from Europe and know exactly what 100 euros by in food, peanuts, well organic maybe.
            So you might look like as a mistake from somebodies else view apart from yourself and your parents.

          • Jules McPherson

            You are a liar, but thats typical for Buybull thumping retards. You are NOT from Europe and I will bet any amount of money that 100 euros a week you can eat like a king. Try blowing your smoke up someone else’s. Jayzus would hate you for lying.

          • Firstgarden

            You’re both wrong. Let’s chill, gentlemen.

          • Borna Again

            Eat you peanut and get lost.

          • Firstgarden

            This whole matter here has nothing to do with being spiritually reborn.

          • Born Again

            BTW who is talking about being spiritually reborn, ID doesn’t have to do anything with it.
            And dude you need clean shave, that Moses look is worn out.

          • Firstgarden

            That is an image of Zeus.
            Clean shave? I’d rather have a clean heart.

          • Born Again

            Redirect question to Lenin.
            Ups, his been dead for decades, well Fidel is still alive ask him.
            Communism doesn’t bode well these days, and socialism is wearing out very fast.

        • Firstgarden

          Wow. As one brilliant Christian teacher said, either “Change your conduct, or change your name.”

    • Meranda Devan

      “Well than 50% of Americans don’t have any or very little education, so they work minimum wage jobs.” This isn’t true, a lot of highly educated people are out of work. In fact, I think we are overly educated in America

      • DesertPaine

        Education for education’s sake works for a liberal democracy. And its great. But Americans have long since believed that this meshes seamlessly with economics. Bunches of people well schooled in Women’s Studies, P.E., and classics makes for lots of upscale conversations in coffee shops amongst the unemployed or underemployed. Education that folds in with economics means learning skills that feed the economic machine.

      • Bill

        I’m afraid that that education over the last 50 years has become misdirected by the elite, not “over-populated”. We are graduating too many without common sense and “life skills”. Common Core is a great example of education directed by the elite.

      • Born Again

        Meranda, no we are not overly educated, majority of our people have no education. Those who are educated in right profession work and make money, trust me.
        It comes down to choice and what do you want to do with your life.

      • kfilly

        We definitely are not over educated. Look at how many people don’t know a darn thing about their government (number of Senators, the 3 branches of government/roles, how are banking system works). We are over “socialist indoctrinated”!

        • matti81

          Soooo not knowing the branches of government is due to socialism? I wish you ignorant, dumb Americans would refrain from using socialism as a pejorative and apply it to everything you don’ like. I suppose if you didn’t like the taste of brussel sprouts, you’d say it was because of “socialist indoctrination of the brussel sprout.”

    • Priszilla

      Be it as it may be. Half the population does not have enough money to pay your customers a decent income to buy your service.

      • DesertPaine

        Great point, Priszilla. This was Henry Ford’s prescient argument, and was why he paid workers twice the going rate. Literally. The difference was that he was paying for labor for manufacturing, not labor for service. Services derive from wealth production — mostly, manufacturing. The results of US’s modern service economy were predictable. Its inescapable ugly truths have slowly been coming home to roost.

    • Bill

      Not gone yet. I know someone who went to work after high school because he didn’t feel he would be a good “book” learner. He learned several trades by watching, listening and doing what he was told. He learned to accept responsibility. He has used his self-education to become a well respected $25/hr plus supervisor of a natural gas storage facility. I am very proud of my son.

      • DesertPaine

        No, Bill. Your son is educated. He just didn’t go to college to get it. His wage is not an anomaly. It reflects a worth and value borne of knowledge and experience.

        • Born Again

          Don’t waist your time with trolls. They have no clue about anything. They want things for free because they are indoctrinated by system that they deserve it just because they are born in USA. Well answer to them: roll your sleeves guys and take shovel or job at Wall Mart.

    • TheSkeptic

      I always find it amusing when people in the very high tech fields such as computer science and engineering are outsourced and cry bloody murder. It’s as if the holy grail cannot be disrespected at any cost. If you would, can you please define what an “uneducated worker” is? Are their certain job fields that are more entitled to a living wage than others? Is the engineering field immune from the laws of supply and demand?

  • djc

    I’d highly recommend stocking your pantry with items like white rice, protein like salmon or tuna and canned fruits and vegetables. No one is immune to a job loss or illness. Don’t wait, do this as soon as possible.

    • danbax

      oatmeal is even better. it’s healthier and can store just as long too. not prepackaged oatmeal people. the plain oatmeal…

  • Ideas time

    You know the reason we are all in trouble, is the fed, irs, and the fake corporate gv. Clean up that mess and America will come back so fast, your heads will spend.

  • Ideas time

    Create free economic zones and watch what happens. No regulations, no taxes, just business and the crap will always be weeded out quickly in an internet market.

    • Priszilla

      Welcome to China. Enjoy the pesticides in the veggies and the hormones and antibiotics in the meat.

      • DesertPaine

        Welcome to America. Glyophosphate ‘food’ and hormones and antibiotics in the meat.

  • MIke

    You sound like you’re a bit jealous Mr. Karma.

    • http://www.escapetopatagonia.com/EscapetoPatagonia.pdf David Chu

      As John Lennon would say if he was alive today (boy, what this world of ours sorely miss today), I am just a jealous guy.

  • DeadManFromIndia

    three things are causing this
    1) globalization(add in 1 billion in India + 1 billion in China added to labor force)
    2) technology automation making lot of jobs redundant.
    3) evolution -> all the available niches are occupied and their children keep prospering, while the rest are hammered by huge taxes they have to pay to keep the government running and thus don’t get a chance to become prosperous as govt takes away in the form of taxes and regulation.

    in about 5 to 10 years, even the so called Silicon Valley will no longer pay great salaries as the so called third world countries will churn out high quality grads and be willing to work for 1/4 or 1/5th of sal in Silicon Valley.

    It is best to be a doctor in US, they make huge money and I am jealous of them :)

    • danbax

      my wife and i are indirectly in the medical field. i think that is one of the fields that wont have a drawdown in the future.

  • Bill

    This economic decline is like a never ending tropical storm washing away the beach. Wave after wave of relentless destruction of our economy, our country, our world. Mankind is on the eve of destruction. I’m beginning to think prepping is a waste of time.

    • Priszilla

      Prepping for mere survival is a waste of time.

      But you can think also in terms of investment – leaving the place in a better state than you found it. And cost reduction. Using less energy less resources, recycle what you have before throwing away and buy new.

      • Bill

        A simple life is also a way of finding satisfaction.

      • DesertPaine

        Great, Priszilla.

    • XSANDIEGOCA

      Agreed. Putting any faith in our government is also a waste of time. I put away the bottle and read the Bible. I also do a lot of volunteer work and try to help the less fortunate through my church. There are many. This keeps things in perspective and helps a lot.

      • Bill

        Well deserved satisfaction.

      • Jules McPherson

        Its better to teach a person how to fish than give them fish.,

        • Ian B.

          It’s too bad they poisoned the water.

    • Black

      Let somebody else do the work of prepping and when the shtf take theirs. Its called survival of the fittest

      • kfilly

        Yes, that’s a great idea. Right up until you pick on someone that’s a little bit tougher than you, and they exterminate you.

    • Black

      The rich dudes down the street with the big house and four cars have lots of stuff in the pantry and couldn’t fight their way out of a wet paper bag. Easy pickens

      • Malcolm Reynolds

        Yup, right up to the point he just pulls out a gun and your children end up pickens you up off the street.

        You’re exteremely naive if you think you’re just going to breeze you’re way through other people’s things in an economic collapse.

        • VigilanteCaregiver

          Correct; in a true total collapse those who “live by the sword” do not live long.

    • sharonsj

      If you think it’s bad now, wait until the Trans Pacific Partnership treaty is approved. Monsanto will run everything and your medical expenses will double.

      • MichaelfromTheEconomicCollapse

        Very good point Sharon.

        The TPP is really, really bad news.

        Michael

  • edward dennis

    I’m curious to know how someone who can barely keep their lights on is supposed to ‘start a business’. You DO know that requires capital, right? And ‘broke’ doesn’t mean ‘down to our last 50 grand’ right? I’m always astonished how that pat answer comes out in the same breath as saying how so many are struggling. And btw, not everyone has the head and ability to run a business, even if they could start one. They’re just as likely to fail as not, esp when no one has money to patronize it. Then one will end up worse off. I got a better idea: how about just pay people for their work and see where that goes, and save the success guru platitudes for the Amway meetings….

    • danbax

      i agree with you. that is one of the things i disagree with dave ramsey about. he always says to someone to go out and start a business. not everyone has the ability or desire to start a business.

      also, it’s easy when you have alot of disposable money to start a business vs zero dollars.

    • XSANDIEGOCA

      Indeed! Also, consider that 80% of all small businesses croak after 5 years. 80%! When you start a small business, there is no such thing as the clock. Expect to work 7 days a week. An 8 hour day is to be considered “part time”. Expect your hair to turn gray and fall out. Expect to become old before your time. The government is NOT your friend. Ask anyone who has been there.

    • Bill

      Keep it simple. A bottle of windex, an old tee shirt, a free ad on the internet to wash windows and you are in business. The rest is about motivation.

      • DesertPaine

        Bill, like clockwork, the can’t-doers come out of the woodwork. The separation between those who do and those with complex theories for why they can’t do is as clear cut as ever.

    • K2

      His suggestion was not well thought out, but it was a well meaning comment. He said that because jobs are gone/going. But i agree with your point that given the current govt regulations/taxes… starting a business will be even more catastrophic for a person’s financial status (atleast for most of them who start one)

      • DesertPaine

        Tim, your conclusion is true enough in the real world you like to embrace. But (and far aside from the purpose of this website) it is easier IMHO to get the knowledge to run a business without those hopelessly oppressive regulations/taxes, and implement that knowledge, then it is to try to survive in the current environs.

        • K2

          knowledge yes…but money?

          • DesertPaine

            Money, too. Run Bill’s no-capital window washing properly and no regs, taxes or capital are required. In the ‘real world’ though, it is true that the people who are well schooled to know how to do so aren’t generally those who start no-capital window-washing businesses.

          • K2

            There are business like that true, but most of start- up businesses need more money than most people can afford (not just starting costs but including costs top run it until it turns a profit).

            And have more regulations/taxes than they can cut through.

    • MichaelfromTheEconomicCollapse

      There are some businesses that you can start for little to no money.

      You have to work with what you have.

      Michael

      • Born Again

        Yes, pan handling ;)).

      • edward dennis

        That wasn’t even close to my point. My point was, someone who is robbing Peter to pay Paul, and stretching Ramen noodles, the last thing they are thinking about is starting a biz. They just wanna get thru one more day. It’s one more point of stress that isn’t going to help them. That aside, you still need customers with money to spend. If everyone is in the same boat, who is going to do that? Unless it’s one more endeavour to cater to the rich, which is kinda how we got here….

        How about we just pay people a fair wage? The simple solution tends to be the most workable. Really, not everyone cares about being wealthy…

        • Handog

          A Bad Attitude Is Like A Flat Tire, You Can’t Go Anywhere Until You Change It.

          • edward dennis

            Nice. Bumper sticker it all away. Cuz that’s been working so well. Thus my point is made. I’m done.

          • edward dennis

            How those bumper stickers workin out for us? Things getting better? If it’s that easy, then why is this place even HERE?

  • Priszilla

    That’s why it is very important to invest wisely in energy saving measures to reduce running costs in the future. And get a house that is flood and weather proof in the first place. Complacency and earlier everything was better doesn’t help much.

  • Priszilla

    Two theories:
    A) 1. World Europe, 2. World America
    B) 1. World Capitalist countries, 2. World socialist countries

    • http://www.escapetopatagonia.com/EscapetoPatagonia.pdf David Chu

      The term “third world” is a pejorative term spoken by the Imperialists (US/EU) from their lofty towers of power.

      • Mike Smithy

        I prefer the term “Turd World”.

      • Malcolm Reynolds

        is a pejorative term spoken by the Imperialists

        I prefer accurate description of people living in dirt huts.

      • VigilanteCaregiver

        Guys like you do not create the definitions we all use.

        People in poverty must be free to choose for themselves in order to be lifted up and made self-reliant. That is true charity.

  • http://www.Military-Meshs.com/ Armageddon

    So..how do we fix this ?

    • XSANDIEGOCA

      It will not be easy and it will not be quick. Uncle Sam used to be a lithe marathoner weighing 160 lbs. Now, he weighs 320 and has trouble making it from the couch to the can. 1) Attitudes must change. Those who work shall live better than those who don’t. The Welfare State must be castrated. If you are able bodied, you shall work. 2) You are required to save 20% of your gross in an investment of your choice. 3) Taxes slashed. Government pay at all levels slashed 25%. The retirement age raised to 75. Social Security will be means tested. 4) After ten years you will see some improvement. 20 years should do it. The country will remain a viable entity. The alternative is DOOM. Only a matter of time.

  • alan

    In the South $10 an hour is a good job. You would be middle class down here. I have to go back to Florida next spring and I expect to make in the $10 an hour range. You can get $12 if you know someone.

  • danbax

    i’ll come move in with you then.

    • http://www.escapetopatagonia.com/EscapetoPatagonia.pdf David Chu

      Only if you’re a gorgeous blonde with certain measurements like 36-24-36, rich beyond my wildest dreams! And you can cook as a gourmet chef!

      • danbax

        Why does she need to be rich if you live well on 7000 a month? Lol!

  • XSANDIEGOCA

    Someone needs to explain to me how legalizing 34MM illegals, who will promptly bring in another 34MM illegals, is going to help this situation? Employers from the top, down will eagerly hire the new arrivals over the native born because they will be perceived as cheap and exploitable. If you think otherwise, ponder how NAFTA and the WTO have benefitted the American Worker despite extravagant promises to the contrary.
    *
    For those who remember, let me tell you once again that Ross Perot was right. When ole Ross was carrying on back in 92 and receiving all manner of invective and scurrilous insult for daring to speak the truth, the National Debt was around 2 Trillions! Well, Ladies and Gentlemen, the debt now approaches 20 Trillions and will probably broach 25 trillions by the time Obutu leaves office. We are in a state let me tell you and no real hope on the horizon!
    *
    In five years, you will cease to recognize the country of your birth. Perhaps you have lain awake at night and wondered what it would be like to live in Mexico? You are about to find out.

    • Jules McPherson

      I saw the writing on the wall 25 years go and escaped the USA. Its nice living in my country of birth which is light years ahead of the USA in everything (except killing innocent people).

      • XSANDIEGOCA

        Pray tell, where is this paradise?

        • Jules McPherson

          I live in the Netherlands. Not paradise but 10 times better than the USA.

          • No country like USA

            Been there, it is just bborriinnngggg.

    • Mike Smithy

      +10 up votes.

  • MIchael in Chicago

    Most everyone I know who is married is working at least 2 jobs. Chris and Matt both have a full-time and a part-time job. The wives also work full-time. Pedro has 3 jobs and sometimes works 24 or more consecutive hours. Ken has 4 jobs but two are seasonal (landscaping/snow plowing). I recently quit my third job. We all just seem to be drowning with the mortgage being the anchor.

  • Jackie Milton

    I’m confused, if 50% make less than 28,031 and 50% make more than 28,031 then how can the average yearly salary be 43,041?

    • Tim

      $28,031 is the median. $43,041 is the mean or average. Median is the middle value of a set of figures when arranged from lowest to highest. Average is the sum of the values in a set divided by the number of values in the set. As the article states, the average of $43,041 is skewed by the salaries of the ultra-wealthy.

      • Bill

        Very well said.

        • Tim

          Thanks, Bill. :-)

      • Jackie Milton

        Thanks Tim but mean, median, center , average , middle , midway, center are a synonyms that have the same definition. To remove any data point (the rich or the poor) will fail to produce the correct average.

        • Drud

          They are synonyms, in that they have similar meanings in general vernacular, however mean (or average) have very specific definitions in mathematics. Take these 5 numbers:
          4, 6, 7, 8, 10

          mean = (4+6+7+8+10)/5 = 7
          median (the value of the number at which 50% is higher and 50% are lower) = 7

          Now do the same for these 5 numbers:
          4, 6, 7, 8, 110

          mean = (4+6+7+8+110)/5 = 25

          while, the median remains 7.

      • Jackie Milton

        I guess it is possible the mean and median could vary that much with a large data set. Of course you could remove all people earning minimum wage and it would be skewed the other direction.

  • DesertPaine

    David Chu, I think you are right in large part. In the past though, you’ve written that the answer is to dismantle the American system. Do not confuse that engine, and its (presumed) American foundations, with bad choices a society makes within that system. Americans’ day of reckoning comes soon. But it is a result of getting away from fundamentals, not a result of adhering to them.

    • Firstgarden

      Well said.

  • http://bigdanblogger.blogspot.com/ Big Dan

    That’s $14/hour. An easy way to ballpark how much an hour a yearly salary is: $28,000 – take the 28 and divide it by 2 = $14/hr.

    SO…it would be a good idea to make the minimum wage $20, which would be $40,000. it would save taxpayers money by shifting the “working poor” off the welfare rolls and into the corporate profits, saving US money.
    There should not be a job in America where you work full time and are still in poverty, that is sinful and the company should not exist.

    • DesertPaine

      How on Earth does a ‘full time job’ equate with ‘poverty’? The measure of a job is the value it produces, not the hours that are worked. Spend a 10 hour day making buggy whips and pay should be zero — exactly what the product of that labor is worth. The idea of a living wage Just Because has no connection with anything at all.

      • K2

        The measure of a job is by how much it can provide for people. Slaving 9-12 hrs a day for a salary that inst enough to provide for basic expenses is absurd. Corporations and govts exist for people….not the other way round.

        • DesertPaine

          Whose measure is that, Tim? Yours? It is not any measure recognized in any business practice I know of.

          I know of no slave in America who works 9-12 hours a day for a salary. I know of no slave — a person giving involuntary labor — who works for a salary at all.

          I know of no corp or govt who exists for the people, aside from their public relations department.

          Your opinions are fervent. Few facts are convenient for those opinions.

          • K2

            Measured business practice? People work not with the intention to make businesses rich, they work to make themselves rich. And thats how they measure a job.

            And you know of no one? All those people who are making those salaries like the article like mentioned are struggling like that.

            But you are right..no govt or business exists for people thats why our world is getting screwed , that why i said they ‘should’ i did not say they are existing like that.

            Your opinions are fervent. Few facts are convenient for those opinions.

          • K2

            Sorry in my earlier comment i wanted to say ‘should’ exist not just exist. I mistyped it.

          • DesertPaine

            And, the measure of the businessman is to get rich, not what s/he can provide for the people.

            A slave, by definition, is an involuntary arrangement. There are many better cases you could have made than that of ‘slave’. Do you know of anyone who accepted a job without voluntarily applying for it and accepting its terms?

          • K2

            I know thats the measure of business, i was talking about the measure of a ‘job’

            Also slaving is a word that is commonly used by people who work more than the usual 8-9 hrs and yet are struggling to make ends meet.

          • DesertPaine

            I recognized your relation of your comment to the ‘job’ side of the equation after you explained it. Its good to point out that both employer and employee are striving to get what they can for their interest on the best terms possible. Only when the worker comes to believe s/he didn’t make a good deal do the ‘common good’ arguments arise.

            Yes, ‘slaving’ is a term uses as you say. But even then it points to a certain perspective of that situation.

          • K2

            ”Only when the worker comes to believe s/he didn’t make a good deal do the ‘common good’ arguments arise.”

            Not ‘believing it’ they are not getting a good deal….good deal for a worker is a job to make ends meet

            ”Yes, ‘slaving’ is a term uses as you say. But even then it points to a certain perspective of that situation.”

            There are two parts of the meaning ‘slave’ or ‘slaving’ one is involuntariness (working against their will) and the other part is not getting paid enough to make ends meet in spite of working a lot of hours, and slaves in earlier times did work like this. Most workers today although they are not doing it involuntarily, certainly fulfill the second part of the criteria.

          • DesertPaine

            K2, lots of wage earners making damn good wages walk picket lines upset because they don’t like their deal.

            Your slave illumination would certainly cause me to re-think the framing of the question. I looked through all nine versions of Black’s, and given the nature of the word, back to Bouvier’s 1861 as well. I can find nothing that supports your assertion. Can you tell me where you get your information about the second definition of slave and slaving that you invoke? THX.

          • GSOB

            Geeeze

          • matti81

            Then you idiots shouldn’t complain about subsidizing Mcdonalds workers through food stamps and other government programs.

          • GSOB

            We know what K2 is saying…. It is not necessary to repeat it.

    • Mike Smithy

      Why stop at $20 an hour. Let’s make the minimum wage $1,000,000 an hour and everyone can be millionaires overnight. After one day on the job, they can then retire and live the good life. Sarc off.

      • DesertPaine

        I’ll see your $1,000,000 and raise it $1,000,000!

      • David Mowers

        The average pay for the world’s largest manufacturer, Germany, is $45.00 an hour for blue-collar skilled labor but I suppose it’s too much to ask that the person doing the work get some benefit from their labor if they are forced to live in this nation.

        • DesertPaine

          Who is forcing anyone to live in this nation, David Mowers?

          • Jules McPherson

            As someone who is Ex American I can assure you its not as easy as you think leaving the USA. Sure you can get on a plane somewhere for a couple of months but try STAYING there. Most countries enforce their immigration laws.

          • Jane the Plummer

            And new bank regs assure that other countries don’t want the hassle of American citizens.

          • David Mowers

            Right. I’ll just immigrate to Africa…oh look, plane flights are only eight thousand dollars one-way right now. I can easily afford that on minimum wage.

          • Mike Smithy

            That’s a small price to pay. I can set you up in a nice little mud hut in Nigeria adjacent to an Ebola treatment center which is next to a refugee camp. The rent is very reasonable.

          • Priszilla

            8, 000? You fly first class?

          • David Mowers

            That was economy.

          • Priszilla

            No, I fly from England to China Economy for #600 return. That’s 12h flight one way.

          • Jules McPherson

            You Americans think you can just leave and go impose yourself on other countries? Try it and see how far you get. LOL.

          • Mike Smithy

            Right, thanks for reminding me that it’s OK for the rest of the world to leave their hell hole and impose themselves on the USA.

          • Jules McPherson

            ”Coming from Northern Europe back to the USA is like leaving the Jetsons and returning to the Flintstones”’ –New York Times reporter in 2011. only people coming into the USA are Mexicans and losers.

          • Mike Smithy

            Say hello to George Jetson for me and ask him if he can loan me a tin foil hat similar to yours.

          • Jules McPherson

            hahah, tin foil hat? That would be people like you who believe the loony ”19 Arabs with boxcutters” CONSPIRACY, so neatly trotted out a day after the event by people who couldn’t find the Unabomber for years. Ever hear of ”critical thinking’? you should give it a try instead of listening to the lying FOXCNNABCCBSNBC and your lying govt.

          • Mike Smithy

            Just like you, morons on the left lap up idiocy like dog vomit. Just out of curiosity, does George Jetson’s robot dog, Astro lap up his own vomit?

          • David Turco

            You’re confusing the American sheeple with logic.

          • Malcolm Reynolds

            After reading that, you should include liars in your list.

            I’ve lived there honey, and you’re full of sh*Cough*it.

          • No country like USA

            Hey tulip zip it.

          • liberalsRhumanExcrement

            please continue to lick mens testicles

          • Jules McPherson

            Well why don’t you enforce your laws? My father immigrated to the USA in 1951 after waiting 5 years for permission. I escaped the USA in 1989 after waking up to what the USA is really all about.

          • Malcolm Reynolds

            It’s funny that you’re extolling the virtues of govt all up and down this page, and now hammering Mike because of the stupidity of…govt.

            Are you schizophrenic or just stupid?

          • Mike Smithy

            It’s true, liberalism is a mental disorder.

          • matti81

            How Stalinesque of you.

            While I think conservatism is intellectually inferior, I wouldn’t go as far as to say its adherents are “mentally ill”, because that’s what despots like Stalin said of those who disagreed with his ideology.

          • No country like USA

            He is both and high on tulips.

          • Jane the Plummer

            12 years of ding-dong Pavlov education is what your up against Jules…

          • No country like USA

            You are deep asleep tulip.
            No country like USA.
            God bless America.

          • liberalsRhumanExcrement

            please leave the USA and never return, you are a dumbf*ck

          • Firstgarden

            Let me give you a hint, and you can take it or leave it.
            Some of what you say is quite true, often half true, in terms of the entire equation. But, the part of that which IS true, is severely undermined by HOW you say it – in the spirit of disparagement, superiority and conceit. If you get your jollies by dissing others, then there’s no more that can be expected. But, if you have any interest in persuasion, enlightenment and wise discourse, then that would make for a useful, meaningful forum.

          • Mike

            Did you renounce your citizenship? Then you are still an American, idiot.

          • Jane the Plummer

            We are the being set up. Locked in. I have seen this for quite some time not seeing the motive…until recently.
            All I can say is, if you have the capability, get yourself to the warmest part of the US. It will be your only chance other than outright leaving the country.

        • Jules McPherson

          I live in NL,. 10 minutes from German border. We have unions here, everyone is a member , including housewives and unemployed. Our elected govt tries to screw us we shut down the country.

          • David Mowers

            You guys also have the profit-sharing corporate model that gives everyone a share in teh company correct?

          • Jules McPherson

            Some companies. not all, but govt regulations keep companies from abusing people and emphasis here is on balanced healty life. So we have mandated vacations and 38 hour work weeks. and also if you work shifts its time and a half or double time for weekends and triple time for holidays. thats NATIONAL law.. not up to the employer.

          • David Mowers

            Right, a real nation with a real democracy.

          • Jules McPherson

            Yes, and very strict elections, with paper ballots and strictly monitored by 3 people counting ballots. All of them from different parties. We did away with computer voting because of fraud. and then again, the labor unions have lots of clout.

          • Jules McPherson

            The shareholders don’t have the power here that they do in the USA.

          • No country like USA

            Netherland is size of NY city so don’t call it country.
            Learn plumbing you will need it , under the sea, under the sea…

          • Priszilla

            In the Netherlands they live under the sea for centuries. They can manage it, while America cannot.

        • Mike Smithy

          The operative word in your post is “Manufacturing”. For the most part, we don’t manufacture anything in the USSA. We are now a “Service” economy and Service economies do not command high wages. Additional wage deflation is manifested by the influx of illegal immigrant invaders.

          • David Mowers

            You ain’t never met a plumber from New York City then.

          • Mike

            I did plumbing in South Jersey for 10 years. Always worked non union shops and made very good money. Not one illegal in any shop.

          • David Mowers

            F.A.R.

          • Priszilla

            Don’t blame the immigrant for free enterprise to look for better living conditions.

            Blame your corporations to employ them instead of you.

            In Hong Kong, employers of illegal immigrants (coming mostly from mainland china) face 2 years jail.

            Next time you get a service from an American company let them show you their clean bill of health first – living wage, only employing legal residents, no employee needs additional income from the tax payer to survive.
            Certified by independent non-profit company.

        • Jane the Plummer

          “nation” is a corporation. it was always a business, not a country.

        • Mike

          Nobody is being forced to live here. They are free to leave whenever they like.

        • rumz pirate

          You are quoting the average. The average in the US is rroughly $43,000. You won’t make it to CEO if you can’t even understand the article you just read. Guessing you make $10/hour yourself. If my cash wage was calculated at an hourly bases it would be close to $70/hr and I am not close to becoming the CEO. See what having brains can do for people?

          • David Mowers

            Yeah right sure.

          • David Mowers

            So your claim is that you are in the top 13% of Americans but you use an anonymous name and post on message boards while attempting to bash those who earn less income than yourself?

            I quoted the average pay cited for blue collar workers.

      • K2

        Yeah you are right, people should just scrape by, while corporates should get even richer.

        • Malcolm Reynolds

          yeah you are right, people should just get paid what corporates get paid, because having the skills of a moron is the same as being able to manage a million dollar company or develop some product and take the time make it successful.

          • Jane the Plummer

            “skills of a moron”. you crack me up. lol

          • Gay Veteran

            the only “skills” a lot of these CEOs have is running their companies into the ground by borrowing money to buy back stock. Pure genius

          • liberalsRhumanExcrement

            some are skilled at humping, your specialty

          • Gay Veteran

            you shouldn’t talk about your mother that way

          • ImALowCrawlingScumbagGayVet

            It takes the lowest slime to bring one’s mother into this. Shame on you.

          • I’mALowCrawlingScumbagGayVet

            Filthy Pig.

          • Gay Veteran

            looking into a mirror, eh

          • CharlesH

            Exactly right. Look at Jeff Bezos – Amazon. 20 years – ZERO profit yet the guy is a billionaire! Only in America.

          • http://ttstblog.blogspot.Com/ Really20

            Except that was not entirely, not even mostly, the work of Bezos. He took on some initial risk, his shareholders took on some initial risk, but the real people who made it happen were the engineers and workers of Amazon. Bezos would be worthless were it not for the labor of others.

          • Malcolm Reynolds

            Are you saying those people didn’t get paid fair market value for their labor?
            YIkes! I missed those accusations. Please post me a link and I’d be happy to stop shopping there, if that’s the case.

          • http://ttstblog.blogspot.Com/ Really20

            No, I’m saying that the shareholders are benefiting at the expense of the workers who actually produce value. Do you know how many companies are tapping their savings or even the debt markets to pay dividends and buybacks? How can such behavior be considered morally correct when it shortchanges those who actually produce value?

            You’re clearly a defender of the 0.1% rentier/shareholder elite.

          • Malcolm Reynolds

            shareholders are benefiting at the expense of the workers

            Not at the expense of the workers. The workers are benefitting from the pay they receive.

            So you’re a communist?

          • Priszilla

            ” The workers are benefitting from the pay they receive FOR THE WORK THEY DO.”

            HAHAHA

            That’s not true. They are not paid for the work they do.
            The value of the work they do is added to the value of the resources they use and then forms the price of the goods to be sold.

            If the company would pay the worker the price for their work there wouldn’t be any profit.

            Workers are only paid for the time they spend in the company, or basically for the money they need to come back the next month.

            Nowadays, with so many jobless and more immigrants coming in, they can even be paid less, as it doesn’t matter whether they starve or not. There will be replacement from the labour market.

            And nowadays it also doesn’t matter whether customers can pay cash as long as they can take out a loan or credit.

            A consumer credit is basically a contract to give their future income to the company. A slave contract.

            The moment the workers step away from consumerism this system will collapse.

          • Malcolm Reynolds

            That’s not true
            I’m sorry, you’re just too stupid to spend the time trying to actually formulate a rebuttal.

          • FoonTheElder

            Just like most CEOs who make their money from workers in still Communist China.

          • Malcolm Reynolds

            Ummm no, but you’re close.
            CEOs get their money the same way that those with moron skills do.
            Here’s how it works.
            A company builds a product one way or other (and yea, outsourcing is wrong), they then sell that product and make money. That money the company makes is then allocated to each according to the value of their skillz and the amount of risk they took for the company to make that product.

          • Priszilla

            Yes. Those with back breaking jobs get the most and those playing golf get the least.

          • Malcolm Reynolds

            Good luck with that. You’re living in fantasy land.

          • Priszilla

            Isn’t that what you said? Those who risk most get the best deal?

          • Malcolm Reynolds

            Sorry poopy pants, box movers and pickle placers risked nothing. NOTHING. n.o.t.h.i.n.g. zilch. zero. nada. n.a.d.a.

            when that buzz wears off, get back to me, because you’re smoking crack.

          • Third Eye

            Go do the hard work and fighting in a foreign land while the corporation profit…”Grunt”

          • FoonTheElder

            Value of their skills and risks huh. Is that why the billionaires make big money from underpaying for other people’s labor, using other people’s ideas, using other people’s money and adding big amounts of big corporate welfare?
            Most of the billionaires in this country made most of their money by stealing it from someone else and creating oligopolies or monopolies that eliminated any competition.
            Bill Gates-bought MS DOS from Seattle Computer Works (who copied it from someone else)without mentioning he had a deal to sell it to IBM, which was obtained because his mother knew one of the board members.
            The Koch fortune was started by copying someone else’s oil drill. After being sued, they went to the Soviet Union and made a fortune from the Communists.
            Steve Jobs never invented anything in his life. He took the credit for the creations of others.

          • Malcolm Reynolds

            You’re paid what you’re worth. If you’re not getting paid what you’re worth then obviously you can go next door. Sorry, whazzat? You weren’t worth a zillion dollars next door either?

            BTW, Bill Gate’s company made more millionaires than anyone else in history and provide how many hundreds of thousands of jobs? Sorry, you can STFU now. You’re an occutard parrot and a simpleton.

          • FoonTheElder

            Keep kissing the rear end of the wealthy and maybe they will throw you a dime of the money they made by screwing everyone else.

          • Malcolm Reynolds

            Keep licking those windows and maybe you’ll get your fill.

          • Priszilla

            Yes. They are blackmailed to take the job – take it or starve.

            What’s fair in that?

            They should form unions and fight for their fair share.

            Get paid the same per hour as any executive director.

            If the director doesn’t like it, he can go, or clean the customer loo by himself.

            Customers first, right?

          • Malcolm Reynolds

            I’m sorry, who got blackmailed?

            Oh yea, no one did.
            You got offered a fair rate for your moron skillz and you took it.
            Just because you don’t like the fact that your skillz aren’t worth a whole bunch doesn’t mean you got blackmailed, and it doesn’t mean you rate to get paid what the CEO makes, it means you should’ve done better in school and asserted yourself more in life.
            Remember, it’s your fault.

            Dude, you live in fantasy land.

          • Priszilla

            So you are saying the son of an Indonesian rice farmer has the same chance to land a great job as you. Just by assertion and studying hard?

          • Malcolm Reynolds

            You’re saying he doesn’t? You mean to tell me the son of an Indonesian rice farmer has no chance to get a good job if he’s educated and asserts hisself? f.a.n.t.a.s.y. l.a.n.d.
            You have GOT to be a disappointment to your parents. You are clueless.

          • Priszilla

            Should fruit pickers quit their jobs because fruit traders are paid better?
            How does that work?

          • Priszilla

            You probably can’t comprehend that people who made it remember where they came from and the time and energy it took to get where they are.

          • lien49

            Just ask Mondobeyondo, above, who’ll soon realize the truth.

          • Priszilla

            What risk do shareholders take?
            If a company goes bust, who suffers most – the shareholder or the employee?

          • http://ttstblog.blogspot.Com/ Really20

            The employee suffers most, especially in a mature company.

          • Malcolm Reynolds

            Well, the shareholder is out all that time he took to earn the money he used to invest in the business, and on top of that, he’s out the money.
            You pickle placers are out what was it again? You walked next door and started putting pickles on the burger next door.

          • Priszilla

            In case you didn’t notice, car assemblers need eating too, and maybe some training in assembling the car correctly. And maybe a place to live.
            So, where did all the Detroit auto workers go?

          • Malcolm Reynolds

            She’s DEAD Jim!

            What happened Bones?!

            Extreme obtuseness.

            You can die form that?

            No, but she picked up a fatal bug licking all those windows.

          • Priszilla

            He is out the money he didn’t need. He didn’t need it for living so he parked it in shares. An exception might be pension funds but even then it might be more prudent to invest your money in your own home to save operating costs like heating, lighting, air conditioning.

          • Malcolm Reynolds

            It must be nice being the grand poobah who gets to decide what people need.

          • Priszilla

            Well, I can’t afford shares. I need to pay rent and food.

          • GPA

            Without a vision there is no business. That being said big gov protects big biz. This is not capitalism.

          • http://ttstblog.blogspot.Com/ Really20

            A saying in Silicon Valley goes something like this: “Ideas are a dime a dozen. Execution is the most important factor.”

            It’s true that the business requires vision to start up, but how much of the continued success of a business can be attributed to vision alone? The answer is very little. And why should shareholders, who have contributed neither vision nor execution, be so richly compensated at the expense of workers?

          • Malcolm Reynolds

            And why should shareholders, who have contributed neither vision nor execution
            Ummm hello, how much execution is there without shareholders loaning that money in the form of purchasing shares? Get back to me once you figure that out.

          • Malcolm Reynolds

            Yup. This is progressivism and it’s crony capitalism and fascism.
            But hey, REPUBLICANS! That clown votes for it and then blames the other guy for his own low-info.

          • Malcolm Reynolds

            Sounds like the board or the shareholders should do something about that.
            But still doesn’t make morons worth what a CEO makes, huh genius.

          • Gay Veteran

            Sounds like the board or the shareholders should do something about that….”

            ROFLOL, yeah, riiiiight.

            “…But still doesn’t make morons worth what a CEO makes, huh genius.”

            that’s right, can’t upset the 1%

          • Malcolm Reynolds

            You’re a genius lawyer living in the upper crust of Boston society.
            Aren’t you the 1%?

          • Gay Veteran

            don’t live in Boston, not in 1%

          • Malcolm Reynolds

            You have claimed to me that you lived in a high end townhome (or brownstone or whatever it was) overlooking Boston Harbor and are a very successful lawyer.
            You’re a liar then or now, you choose…

            I said you were a low end liar (I mean lawyer) and a failure based on the way you talk.
            I’m right then or now, you choose….

            I think we’re done here. Have a good day.

          • Gay Veteran

            Has tertiary syphilis finally rotted your brain?
            I have lived in Baltimore since 2002.

          • Malcolm Reynolds

            Ahh ok, I have to explain to everyone, in the pole smoker’s mind that makes everything I said wrong.

            Back in reality, trade Baltimore with Boston (but then you knew you could’ve just corrected me on that utterly insignificant point) and you’re still a liar, then or now.

          • Gay Veteran

            ever the troll, eh
            btw, bite me

          • VigilanteCaregiver

            If you are a lawyer, then you should know you just committed slander via social media – which is against the law where we live.

          • Gay Veteran

            hey Einstein, it was a question, not a statement

          • VigilanteCaregiver

            Oh, please! Any lawyer knows that when you claim someone has a specific illness that’s not already public knowledge or is proprietary information is defined as slander. Since you’re claiming to be a lawyer this time, I’m sure you’d know that. And questions have a question mark at the end.

          • Gay Veteran

            oh noez, a grammar na zi

          • LowCrawlingScumbagGayVet

            Arguing with the Troll-Hole again? You know you can’t win because he has a definite advantage. You have to handle the excrement he pulls out of his a s s and slings at you. You prefer some measure of cleanliness, but he lives in excrement, and so, is used to it. The lower you go, the more you’re right in his living room. You go away maybe regretting the foul exchange. But he loves it. Lives for it.

          • VigilanteCaregiver

            Wait, Gay told me he’s a scientist in the Oil Industry a while ago – when I proved he’s wrong on the abiotic oil theory. And a few months ago he claimed expertise in another unrelated field (can’t recall what, but it’s in the record here).

            Now he’s a high priced lawyer?!

            This guy (or cabal of people) is only a professional agitator and militant with possible mental issues.

          • Malcolm Reynolds

            reallyyyy!? Ya, he told me awhile back that he’s a patent attorney.

          • VigilanteCaregiver

            Yeah, he told me he’s an engineer with a petrochemical company last year. Bet he’s realm just some grad school drop out living out of his mom’s fridge.

          • VigilanteCaregiver

            Sorry for no reply for a while, been out working.

            Yeah, Gay has claimed to be “expert” in numerous fields – and has no real arguments past web searches to back him up. Easy to expose him.

          • paul

            And people without skills shouldn’t vote.

          • Schorsch

            Nope, people should get paid in relation of what profit they make their companies. You would be surprised, even an “unskilled” burger flipper is making their company MORE than $15 profit. How much profit is he making flipping 100s of burgers per hour? Ironically, even a burger flipper would need to learn to be effective at what he’s doing.

          • Malcolm Reynolds

            Nope, people should get paid in relation of what profit they make their companies.
            Exactly. And the maid that makes a bed and vacuums the floor and the people that annoyingly continue to put a damn pickle on my burger, when I ask them not to, deserve exactly what they’re getting. Because in the end, they’re only adding pennies to the dollar.
            So no, they’re not making someone else’s company (ooops, it’s not theirs) MORE than $15 profit.
            You all caught up?

          • K2

            Mor*n? so every worker out there struggling is a mo*on? Looks like you are a mor*n. Are they asking for millions you mor*n?

          • Malcolm Reynolds

            lol, yep, definitely acquainted with them.

            It figures that you wouldn’t get why those people are struggling. It’s because they have skills that can be shopped like bubble gum. And because you don’t get that, yup, you’re a moron.

          • K2

            I actually typed the above comment first but i flagged it, because of the personal attack, but it wasnt removed.

            Anyway. yes they have common skills, but that doesnt mean they shouldnt get a living wage.

          • Malcolm Reynolds

            That’s just too bad that you didn’t get your way. You should get used to that…
            Oh BTW, ‘living wage’ is bull squeeze progressive propaganda.
            If the sum total of your skillz is to put a pickle on a burger, then no you DO NOT deserve to live a carefree life.
            You deserve to either live like a teenager still living with mommy and daddy or to live in poverty for being an abject failure at life.

          • K2

            You do not deserve to live a care free life? Even a lot of other jobs (not just the lowest earning jobs) have similar level of skills as the lowest paying jobs, yet they are getting living wages.

            Who the hell are you to say they dont or i dont deserve a living wage. By the way i am making enough. Dont assume that i am not.

          • K2

            Skills of a moron? Only intelluctal work needs to get a living wage? Are they asking for bloo*y millions?

          • Malcolm Reynolds

            Ahh, you must be acquainted with them.

          • K2

            Thats your response?

          • Malcolm Reynolds

            Yup. That about sums it up. You’re clearly resentful at the raw deal your life is and you think you’re entitled to more than you’re apparently worth.
            So ya, it’s likely that you’re acquainted with the skills of …. come on, say it for me.

          • K2

            I have no raw deal my friend, i am making enough.

          • Justin Harmon

            Yeah – about those bailouts again. I think we’ve seen how well managed everything has been, but they still got theirs while we got jack.

          • Malcolm Reynolds

            I’m sorry, that has absolutely jack to do with the conversation. Oh and don’t put words in my mouth, I don’t support bailouts.

          • Justin Harmon

            Oh I just heard some mention of how all these companies and CEO’s were getting their (more like our) money. Just wanted to throw that out there. The fact that these companies now have a free pass to produce absolutely nothing with no danger of implosion has a hell of a lot to do with the state of our economic affairs. Maybe it just has little to do with your personal ideology.

          • Malcolm Reynolds

            Well you can certainly try to say it has something to do with my ideology, however, you’re going to want to do your homework on what you vote for. Progressivism. Yup, not so much my ideology.
            And again, has nothing to do with the discussion about what you people think you’re worth putting pickles on a burger.

          • Justin Harmon

            Yeah I did my homework… That’s why I didn’t vote for any of them. I love how you make the “you people” reference. Apparently you think you’re one of them. Like George Carlin said, they won’t stop until they get it all… And no, you’re not in their “big club” either. Hate to tell you pal, but there’s no seat for you at their table either.

          • Malcolm Reynolds

            I’m sorry, exactly what club did I say I was in? Who did I say I was, exactly? spell that out for me, because I don’t recall saying. For all you know, I’m a pickle placer that’s accepted his fate.
            I referred to you as ‘you people’ because, you did your homework but you still haven’t figured out why the pickle man isn’t worth as much as the CEO. so ya, I’m gonna lump you in there. Sorry, you people (oops, you see what I did there) seem to be under the impression that because I’m reminding you that moron skills just aren’t worth a damn, that I support this political system (which apparently you’ve also figured out), and it’s just not so, so stop trying to make it out that way.

          • Justin Harmon

            No I have figured that out – problem I have with it is that the CEO has free reign to constantly reevaluate what he’s worth and adjust accordingly. In the past, the free market would adjust his or her expectations as to how accurate his delusions of grandeur may or not be. Now the game is rigged so they can never lose, and competition will no longer be an obstacle. I can only disagree with apologists of a rigged system.

          • Malcolm Reynolds

            Well number one, a CEO does NOT have free reign like you say and two, it still HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CONVERSATION.

            And if you’re calling me an apologist for this system, then no, you haven’t figured anything out. I think we’re done here, you have a good one.

          • Third Eye

            Many of the so called “morons” work harder than most Americans! And The CEO’s earning gap as compared to their average workers has been widening exponentially.

        • Mike

          They take the risk why shouldn’t they reap the rewards? Or if they take all the risk they should share it all equally with everyone? Who are you, Obama?

          • Gay Veteran

            what risk? you certainly aren’t talking about the Wall Street banks since WE bailed them out

          • Mike

            I never said anything about wall street. Tell you what go to the owner of the company you work for and tell him you want the same pay as he gets. Let me know how that works.

          • Gay Veteran

            like Apple who builds their products in slave labor China

          • Mike

            If we would make it more profitable to have a company here they wouldn’t have left. Don’t blame the company, blame the politicians.

          • Gay Veteran

            I blame the politicians for “free” trade agreements that result in millions of American jobs going overseas. But then they are only doing the bidding of their korporate masters.

          • Mike

            On that we agree.

          • Priszilla

            How can you make it more profitable if consumers do not earn money?

            You contradict yourself.

            Let the Apple boss buy all of microsofts products, and Bill Gates buy all apple products, and the economy will be thriving.

            Then the shareholders will get enough money to buy cake and the baker will benefit from the money trickling down.

            And even the cleaner in the bakery will get some leftovers and donate some money to the homeless.

          • Mike

            In no way do I contradict myself. If the consumer is better educated making more money is no problem. We are ranked 27th in education and hundreds of thousands of jobs are given to people with visas. Also consumers spend more money on useless junk than they know what to do with. I’m sure you would love to make what your boss makes. If that’s the case feel free to come up with the capital, take a chance, and if you loose it all tough luck.

          • Priszilla

            How should I get the capital the ancestor of my boss stole from my ancestor?
            Any idea?

          • Mike

            Work harder? Or curse your ancestor for not being more successful. It’s your choice.

          • Priszilla

            Next time you are in hospital tell the nurse on her 12h shift to work harder to get more than her minimum wage.
            Same for the carer wiping the behind of your mom in the nursing home.

          • Mike

            If you don’t like the job you are free to get another one. Plus mom has invested well and just bought a condo in Florida so she’s set. Me I’ve never even been in a hospital for treatment. You of course will continue to whine about how unfair life is.

          • Priszilla

            Oh your mom had a home birth. And you will nurse her in her condo once she has dementia. That’s great.

          • Mike

            Ha! Actually my mother was home birthed! With her investments she’ll be able to afford great care. Thanks for shooting the crap out of your own statement. My day gets better and better.

          • Priszilla

            Yes. She’ll pay for a great nursing home who will employ illegal immigrants for less than minimum wage. She might die from neglect because the home pays more to the well educated ceo than the overworked staff. My boyfriend works for such a great nursing home. 12h shifts, and not sufficient staff to have more care than a friendly word for the residents.

          • Mike

            Well then your boyfriend is part of the problem. Seeing as I was the head of Maintenance at an Alzheimer’s home I know exactly how these places work. The lower the monthly payment the lower educated worker you get and the worse the care. So I’m betting your boyfriend is probably half a re tard. Mom on the other hand has plenty of money and will get really great service. Of course that is if any of us live long enough to make it that far, most don’t. Oh yea mom also retired from working for the government so her healthcare is top notch and you pay for it! So tell your boyfriend to keep on wiping and enjoy the smell.

          • Priszilla

            Well I can only wish you a traffic accident, a shooting or stroke. And good luck with your carers and nurses.
            Don’t like them retards? You are free to drown in your excrements.

          • Mike

            I’m sure you and your boyfriend will make a fine living licking windows. Hope any child you have are stillborn. That will only help the gene pool.

          • Priszilla

            Oh. I’m named after “Priscilla in the desert” funny movie. Educational. To get a picture of me imagine Dolph Lundgrin in drag. LOL

          • Mike

            LMAO!

          • liberalsRhumanExcrement

            you are a clown

          • Gay Veteran

            why are you staring into a mirror?

          • LowCrawlingScumbagGayVet

            You are to be pitied. For you have the darkest, ugliest prospect:

            being you.

            That’s the worst punishment imaginable.

          • Gay Veteran

            awwwwwwwwww, stoopid troll hurt my feelings

          • LowCrawlingScumbagGayVet

            That’s being kind.

          • liberalsRhumanExcrement

            lololololol

          • LowCrawlingScumbagGayVet

            Imagine the absolute horror of waking up in the morning, looking in the mirror, and seeing that you are gay veteran.

          • liberalsRhumanExcrement

            no, god, please no

          • Malcolm Reynolds

            Or lawyers, since all they do is destroy. We should immediately seize all assets of lawyers. right? Of course you agree with that.

          • Gay Veteran

            bankers first

          • Gay Veteran

            riiiiiight, until YOU get injured and need a lawyer.

            we could use a 50% reduction in lawyers, just like we need a 50% reduction in the Pentagon budget

          • matti81

            Did someone hold a gun to their head and force them to take risk? or did they take it upon themselves?

            If “risk” was such a factor in determining some corporate wanker getting 1000% more than their workers, then why don’t fire fighters and cops get millions of dollars for the risk they take every day on the job—they actually risk their lives, not their money.

          • Mike

            Nobody held a gun to their head. Just like nobody hold a gun to fire fighters or officers when they take the job. Thanks for answering your own question.

          • matti81

            Yeah, but risking your life is much more admirable than risking your business.

          • Mike

            I agree. Which makes his comparison even more foolish.

          • K2

            I said corporates should get even richer with regards to the act of skimping on wages to raise their bottom line even more. Not with regards to the general revenues they rake in.

        • lasflklibsareshitay3oi2ij23i4

          ^effeminate communist

          • Gay Veteran

            project much?

          • matti81

            ^ jack boot fascist vermin.

      • Mondobeyondo

        Sure, why not! We can have the baristas and burgermeisters (aka McDonald’s employees) make a cool million buck minimum wage. And tomatoes will cost $350,000 each, potatoes $275,000, and don’t even talk about meat. Heh.

        • MichaelfromTheEconomicCollapse

          Good to hear from you Mondo!

          How is life treating you these days?

          Michael

          • Mondobeyondo

            I have finally found employment, it’s at the local Amazon warehouse and I begin on November 2nd. It’s the graveyard shift (which I do not like), but hey, it’s work!!

          • Born Again

            Halleluiah, good fortune to you.

      • jane

        Has it once crossed your mind that store are closing and throwing more people out of work because the middle class can no longer afford even the basics, let alone things like computers, iphones etc.

        Perhaps when companies like apple go broke, people like you will wake up to the fact that the rich don’t keep the economy ticking over, it is the middle class.

      • Justin Harmon

        Well, with all the trillions we gave the too big to fails, how many of us could have been overnight millionaires.

    • David Mowers

      Any idea that works for the majority doesn’t work for a Congress that works for the rich.

    • liberalsRhumanExcrement

      you are very funny

    • june

      Double the minimum wage and companies will double the price of their goods.

    • afchief

      More proof that liberalism truly is a mental disorder!!!

    • Joe Kleinkamp

      Of course people in business will disagree with you for obvious reasons. What’s hard to understand is the working poor who’ve bought into the idea that a living wage is just not practical. Stop for a minute and look at where much of the corporate profits have gone. Thanks to the easy money policies of QE1, 2 and 3 along with near zero interest rates, corporations are borrowing on the cheap to buy back their own stock. Less shares outstanding means a higher price per share. All that government largesse eventually finds its way into the accounts of Gates, Buffett, Soros etc. as well as the many hedge funds and other investment accounts. Meanwhile too many Joe Sixpacks buy the line that even $10 / hr will kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. We live in a global economic world along with seven billion other people. Each year advances in technology increasingly replace human labor. As much as it pains me to say it, at this rate it looks like a 3 day work week at $40 / hr will eventually be needed to keep everyone employed at a living wage. Yeah, I know, good luck with that!

    • erin111

      This is just around what the minimum wage is in Europe!

    • Freeloader

      Well, it’s their fault. They don’t have ambition. if they would get off their butts and work instead of expecting others to take care of them. Also they could stock smoking and drinking and stop watching cable TV and not keep pets. No, I don’t believe that for a minute but this is the kind of attitude I have found on other websites–especially those that are in favor of a flat tax–raise the tax on the poor and lower it on the wealthy afterall the rich have worked hard for their money. 10 years ago I made $35,000 a year. I got laid off after 14 years of loyal service. After more than a year of looking for work I finally got a job that paid $9.36 an hour.

  • Jules McPherson

    I don’t understand,. Here in the Netherlands minimum wage is 15 dollars an hour and everyone gets 5 weeks vacation per year . that is national law. I don’t see McD’s going out of business here in fact they make good profits. I see few companies going bankrupt. The more money people make the more it gets pumped back in the economy. Also the more money people make the more tax revenue comes into the coffers. Poor people pay little taxes.

  • Jules McPherson

    We ban Walmart from this country and Germany kicked them out after 2 years because Germans don’t put up with being treaeted like dirt the way Americans do. Small businesses thrive here, Screw the big box stores

  • http://www.booksbyoliver.com/ PennState93

    And still Americans do not rise up and take a stand.

    Where is the fighting spirit of Americans?

    • Jules McPherson

      Without unions, everyone would have been working for peanuts 80 hours a week back in the 50’s.

    • Jules McPherson

      You either fight with weapons or organize. Unions powerful in all successful rich countries like we have here in Northern Europe. BTW, in the CIA Book of Facts for 2013. Germany ranks number one in Current account balance and USA ranks number 192 , dead last.

      • No country like USA

        In my book USA is #1 and I don’t give flying F*** about any bodies else book. God bless America.
        Next time we will not liberate Europe but conquer once for all. The end.

    • Undecider

      Fluoride happens.

    • JoshuaNB

      Where are the ‘amerikans’ with a ‘fighting spirit’?????????????????????????????

      • Charlie Chaplin

        At the welfare office applying for food stamps.

        • JoshuaNB

          You’re so right.. had to laugh… but it’s so obvious.. it will be part of the ruination of this pathetic ‘country’.

          • blubal jim

            Nothing pathetic about the “country”, it’s the azzholes that run it…….into the ground.

    • danbax

      In the iPhone

    • blubal jim

      We have become a diverse cultural melting pot of worthlessness.

  • Jules McPherson

    Germany didn’t outsource their manfacturing which is the reason they are still a powerhouse and USA is not.

    • MichaelfromTheEconomicCollapse

      Very good point Jules.

      Michael

    • No country like USA

      You don’t know what are you talking about.
      Stick with your puzzle games and tulip garden.

  • David Mowers

    You can’t even rent a motel for seven grand a year much less an apartment here.

    • DesertPaine

      So David Mowers, you recognize that there is a cost of living difference between USA and Argentina, but do not recognize the cost of living difference between USA and Germany.

      • David Mowers

        I recognize that you are a paid GOP shill.

        • DesertPaine

          Intelligent answer.

    • http://www.escapetopatagonia.com/EscapetoPatagonia.pdf David Chu

      Your “silly” comment proves my point. Silly to the rest of us outside of the USA, but maybe not to you and those living in the USA.

      Nobody thinks about living in a motel or hotel!

      You guys haven’t had a real crisis since . . . 1929! We here in Argentina eat crises for breakfast!

  • Joe Kleinkamp

    As long as we stereotype all union members as greedy, lazy thugs things will never improve. As a union worker for over thirty years I witnessed my share of disgraceful work ethic and union feather bedding. Fortunately I saw the other 95% of my co-workers doing their jobs day in and day out as they raised their families, paid their bills and taxes and took part in building the corporation I worked for and the U.S. economy along the way. You’d be surprised how many of these men and women disagreed with some of the policies of the Democrats and voted Republican. It always amazed me that the unions would back any Democrat — even those who supported job killing trade deals or senseless over regulation. I guess the Democrat candidates never felt they had to worry about the union vote because they were assured of an endorsement by union leadership. Consequently Republican candidates viewed unions as the enemy and took whatever measures available to hamper their growth. Always thought it would be better to ask each candidate “What specifically will you do to promote good jobs?” prior to deciding who to endorse. Unfortunately, like the storied crabs in a barrel, many working men and women have taken the position that union workers are overpaid rather than realizing that their own labor is worth more than $28,000 / yr.

  • Jules McPherson

    I take home 30,000 Euros a month in pensions and SS. Our expenses are 1000 euros a month., Wife and I eat like kings for 100 euros a week. (no fast food) we are foodies and cooking is one of our hobbies. Health insurance is 93 Euros a month, (unlimited care with a 350 Euro a YEAR deductible).

    • Joe Kleinkamp

      30,000 euros / month in pension and SS? Extra zero or are you making a joke?

      • Jules McPherson

        Sorry, 3,000 haha

      • No country like USA

        Why bother with this troll.
        What is he doing on this blog?
        There is nothing interesting in tulip land that is why.
        They live in houses 6 feet wide and they call it life.
        We call it prison cell.

  • autofixer

    Open borders is going to help this cause…how?

  • Undecider

    This just means credit card debt will go up.

    • Jules McPherson

      Take away CC’s from Americans and they are some of the poorest people on the planet.

  • sharonsj

    I always thought a middle class income was $50-75,000 a year. Then I took some internet quiz to see if I was in the middle class (with an income of $32,000) and the quiz insisted I was. I wonder if the powers that be are trying to convince us that we really aren’t as poor as we know we are?

  • Loadnup

    “We are witnessing the slow-motion destruction of the middle class.” Just an FYI. It is NOT a slow-motion destruction any more. it is full steam ahead on a train which has already jumped the tracks. Pray, prep and protect.

  • DJohn1

    I think charity needs to start at home.
    Right now we are giving away more money on the international scene than seems possible. Numbers like 300 million to Egypt? It is called Foreign Aid. It was put in place after world war II practically bankrupted the planet.
    So all those people doing well? I speak of Europe, Asia, South America, etc. Why do they need foreign aid if they are doing so well? We need to adjust our money giveaways to conform with what we owe.
    This economy (like others) is only working because of a constant drain of debt to China. We owe trillions to the Chinese. They also are in debt to their eyeballs. It is called Keynesian economics.
    The reason we are sinking so fast into a depression level economy is simple. We just ate all the excess funds of the average person in paying for Obamacare. You either pay the IRS or the insurance company all the discretionary income of the middle class. Now that sucks.
    What I suggest is a line item veto on every government based project out there. Kill the pork and provide for the people out there trying to earn a living.
    I suggest a tariff not on products being brought into the country but on every corporation that has moved its labor overseas. I suggest it equal the amount of revenue lost to the wage earner out there.
    I suggest we fire the doctors. They are often head over heels in debt because people do not have the money to pay them the exorbant amounts of money it takes to practice medicine these days. Doctors used to be independent contractors and owned their practices. Now days, they have to belong to a hospital group just in order to survive. That needs to change 180 degrees. The only way they are making it at all is their dependence on insurance companies.
    So that poor doctor has invested a quarter of a million dollars or more in becoming one is out of luck.
    It is also a closed club. Not just anyone can become a doctor even though there are millions of people out there that want to become one in the medical profession.
    What needs to happen is the money needed to become a doctor has to change. That means doing away with mortar colleges in favor of the internet college. Not everything a doctor needs to become a doctor is medical subjects. All the non-essentials need to be taken to the cheapest means of getting them available and those credits need to be transferable to the medical colleges.
    We need tests that allow a person to challenge out of taking 4 years of college when they all ready have the knowledge necessary. Many people have experience knowledge that needs to transfer to college credit.
    Our education system sucks. It is designed around producing enormous amounts of semi-educated idiots that go to work on an assembly line and that line no longer exists.
    It is based on one’s ability to remember facts long enough to pass a test. It is not based on teaching long term skill levels. It is not based on your ability to make a living.
    I have known a whole generation of college educated idiots in middle management positions over the years. They got those jobs by producing a degree. They had no clue as to what they were doing. That has to change.
    I suggest we need to go more into an experience qualification for all management positions. College is okay but the current system leaves people bankrupt for life.
    We started this college education qualification because the U.S. Military made being an officer you had to have a college level education.

    General LeMay got so tired of college level idiots running the show that he did something about it. He produced an intermediate level officer called a warrant officer. Warrant officers ran all of his Strategic Air Command bases. They were W-1 thru W-4. To qualify you had to be a Sergeant with many years of experience in your field. They were the equivalent of Major or above in the service and his lower rank officers were instructed to let them run the show. It worked big time.
    What are other nations doing to create small businesses?
    Well, one country gives them a year’s minimum wage to start a business. I think that is renewable.
    That is their idea of welfare. They put the people to work.
    Though the price of things is so high right now that even making $50,000 a year is equivalent to making $20,000 a year somewhere else.
    I don’t know all the answers. I do know we have to dismantle the current way we are doing things. We have to put everything on a paying basis.
    The great weakness of the Chinese overwhelming us with cheap retail goods has to be transporting those goods to various places world wide. That price has to be at least 1/3rd of the cost of doing business. So if you can get a factory going locally, is it worth 1/3rd? The Japanese for all their product inventory and lack of currency exchange (There currency is way to high) did realise this and started putting assembly companies here in the USA.
    GM is doing the same thing. They produce the parts elsewhere and send them in to be assembled.
    There is a time and a place for everything. It is way past time that we started looking out for ourselves and doing that first before we help anyone else.

    • Jules McPherson

      Some facts for you. The USA is NOT the largest donor per capita of foreign Aid. Lots of the ‘aid’ from the Useless Snakes comes in the form of weapons. Japan was number one for many years in Foreign Aid.

      • DJohn1

        Thank you. I was not aware that other countries are also into foreign aid. I am saying that we need to get out of it and start fixing things at home.

    • Jocelyn

      Very well said..

  • piccadillybabe

    Walmart is full of obese and disabled people riding motorized scooters. Why do you think they made the isles so wide in the Super Walmarts? They were preparing for the inevitable obesity epidemic. Being obese puts you in the disabled category and that entitles you to all kinds of free assistance programs from food, healthcare, housing and education.

    • http://www.escapetopatagonia.com/EscapetoPatagonia.pdf David Chu

      Being obese or morbidly obese in the USA puts you at the front line to the Culling up ahead!

      You may it sound like it’s an honor to be fat!

    • VigilanteCaregiver

      My wife has a severe TBI. She’s disabled to the point that I have to care for her. She’s not fat; she’s quite petite and cute, really. And all those free assistance programs are not free, not widely available to all severely disabled folks, and isn’t the luxury vacation people outside of this make it out to be – it’s actually an entrapment. And having to deal with all the medical issues is bad enough without having to deal with the tentacles of a fascist government and belligerent progressives who claim to do good while committing acts of pure harm. If it wasn’t for the Church we’d be stuck like this forever.

  • Malcolm Reynolds

    In America, we call your “simple” way of life, poverty. We can buy things because they actually exist here. Whoa unto the guy who’s problems revolve around being able to have things.

    When you guys master being able to flush toilet paper, then maybe, just maybe, you can gloat. Dont worry though, if the idiot communist running your country keeps modelling your economy after Venezuela, you wont have toilet paper much longer.

    • http://www.escapetopatagonia.com/EscapetoPatagonia.pdf David Chu

      You, Malcolm Reynolds are the typical Yankee who watches too much Fox News and listens to too many hours of Rush Limbaugh and/or Sean Hannity.

      When you guys run out of toilet paper, because Costco ain’t selling no more 36 rolls in a pack, you will be wiping your arses with your right hand (because you are a conservative nut job!), while we in the “mud hut” world will be, if we ever run out of toilet paper, using our bidets (you probably need to search for this word online as your vocabulary is limited from doing the two things mentioned above too often).

      • Malcolm Reynolds

        Well, if I had cable and if I listened to either of them, you’d be right. But….
        Other than that, you’re a low info leftist loon who, for some reason, loves his poverty. Suck on that, schmuck.

        • http://IKnowBO.com/ Slam1263

          I like these Libs, “You think differently than me, so there is something wrong with what you watch on TV, by the way, did you see any of the shows glamorizing criminals, violence, and hatred, that I watch for hours on end?”.

      • VigilanteCaregiver

        Um, I manufacture our own toilet paper. It’s not hard to do with simple tools – and with that ability we never run out. (Really should design and build a machine to make TP from start to finish).

        Besides, I just got clearance to build a bio-gas waste system! It not only flushes; it manufactures the waste into methane gas, industrial liquor, ammonium nitrate, other fun chemicals, and a sterile waste product that can be disposed of safely with no risk of a bio-hazard incident. My system is built in the home and only takes up 5’X4’X2′ of space. Cost to build is $235, cost to operate is about $0.002 per flush; estimated return of finished products from what was a waste – $356 per month. Coupled with a cancelled gas bill and no longer buying some other things, that’s quite the savings!

        Can your fancy communist bidets and facilities do that?

        • http://www.escapetopatagonia.com/EscapetoPatagonia.pdf David Chu

          What is it with the use of “communist” as a pejorative descript? If the very definition of such is “state control over economy and finances”, then the Greatest Communist Nation on planet Earth is . . . the United States of Death, Disease and Destruction!

          Your Fed, and it is your Fed even though the sheeple didn’t exactly voted for it, is in command and control of your entire economy and finances, what’s left of it onboard the U.S.S. Titanic.

          That’s great about making your own toilet paper. We are much more practical when store-bought toilet paper is gone: we just wash our arses with a bidet or take a good shower or two! Problem solved.

          You Yankees complicate things too much. You will be eating your manufactured toilet paper pretty soon!

          • VigilanteCaregiver

            Seriously, mate – what is your lot doing better? Huh? I ain’t working for the US – I work for the Kingdom of God. Who’re you profiting?

          • http://www.escapetopatagonia.com/EscapetoPatagonia.pdf David Chu

            I work for the Kingdom of the Little People! Mormons are a very interesting lot. We have many of them here. You tell me that you are profiting God?!? I don’t believe God needs profits!

          • VigilanteCaregiver

            Define “Kingdom of the little people”.

        • Helmut

          Um, nice friggin’ life ya’ have there Viggy.

          • VigilanteCaregiver

            It’s fun! When I’m done with the pet project – that will be something: an inexact replica of a 1907 Cadillac gas/electric horseless carriage. It’s beautiful!

  • Firstgarden

    The Incredible Shrinking Economy.

  • Gay Veteran

    We need to destroy the Federal Reserve, break up the Big Banks, penalize companies that ship American jobs overseas, bring back tariffs, apply anti-monopoly laws to ALL of the medical field (thereby driving down prices by over 50%).

    • http://ttstblog.blogspot.Com/ Really20

      But… but… free trade brings benefits to everyone! It’s a free market! Outsourcing is the future and creates jobs! And our expensive healthcare industry is a driver of economic growth! How dare you do such a thing?

  • http://www.theartofdebtguerrillawarfare.com/ Thomas McFreeman

    That’s the endgame of globalization and now we are experiencing the re-balancing.

    Author “The Art of Debt Guerrilla Warfare, how to beat debt collectors when your back is against the wall.”

  • Brianchaninov

    Agreed there remain few good paying mfg jobs in USA–now mostly service. City “yellow pages” today are dominated by listings for lawyers, med services, massage and tattoo parlors, stuff like that. 50 years ago you’d see machine shop, tool and die, forgings, design/drafting, heat treatment, steel mills, various manufacturers of metal things,etc.
    The other big issue re jobs that don’t pay enuf to support a family today is that “our money is no longer any good”.
    I have my dad’s 1939 pay stub from Southwestern Bell (AT&T). He earned $135/month salary(!) as a graduate electrical engineer—enough for mom to stay home, they owned a modest house and car, plus we ate porterhouse steak occasionally.

    • Guest

      What is considered a “good job” these days hardly resembles work. Any thing productive or requires you to break a sweat is frowned upon by this generation.

  • No country like USA

    You are RETARDED not RETIRED.

    • matti81

      You’re just jealous that America is a cr*p hole that treats its workers like dogs. The fact that mindless fools like you think the American model should be emulated is all the evidence one needs to acknowledge the fact that America is DOOMED.

  • VigilanteCaregiver

    You’re precious. Dude, I’m Mormon: we’re multiplying our efforts at self-reliance and community daily. I’m growing about 2/3 of my food – even have small livestock in an urban area, also we prepare an 18 month supply as a religious expression of faith and charity! I have a massive community to help and to get help from. We help other faiths and people who consider the US an enemy because it’s about helping INDIVIDUAL people. The US, UK, PRC, whatever can do what their tyrants want; we’re doing the will of a living God and thriving from it.

    And before anyone else says “Hey, you’ve written so many times about your rotten situation. They didn’t help you…” The Church is sending me to one of their colleges for online classes to get training for a stay-at-home job so I can support my family, be a proper caregiver, and tell the welfare state to spin on it!

    • http://www.escapetopatagonia.com/EscapetoPatagonia.pdf David Chu

      I am gonna reply to you as a new comment. Don’t want my comment to be buried here!

  • http://ttstblog.blogspot.Com/ Really20

    Convert the Federal Reserve into a bank for banks, state governments, federal government, and foreign government assets in the United States, nothing more. Convert the big private banks into credit unions owned by their depositors, and jubilee all existing income-paying assets (stocks, bonds, mortgages, loans, etc.) over a period of ten years.

    Ban banks from making money and return to Sovereign Money Creation by the Treasury, as we had under Abraham Lincoln and JFK. This money, which should be created in amounts to achieve <1% inflation (and 0% over the long term), should be spent out by the Congress in accordance with the Constitution.

    Finally, corporate boards should be elected by workers who actually produce value, rather than corporate shareholders who merely repurchased shares and use them as a means of extracting dividends and buybacks at the expense of long-term investment. Shareholders should be afforded some representatives to ensure their interests are taken into consideration and to motivate investment, but overall buybacks and dividends should be reduced significantly. To ensure continued investment, shares of stock should last 20 years, or however long it takes to produce a 20% real simple interest return on investment, whichever is longer.

    It should be forbidden to purchase any financial assets on margin, so banks will no longer be able to pump money into the stock market and it will decline to more reasonable levels (after, of course, all old stocks are jubileed).

  • Erik Bergum

    It just seems our media these days and our politicians love to sit around and do nothing while our economy is in such a mess. It just seems we are living in a time where the government wants to make a living off the labors of others. That is politicians of course.

    • David Mowers

      They are doing plenty to aid the private profits of the few at the expense of all else. On that front it is clear they are able to function and reward, by socialist decree, a small special class of Americans against the interests of the whole nation.

  • http://www.escapetopatagonia.com/EscapetoPatagonia.pdf David Chu

    For VigilanteCaregiver:

    Mormons are a very interesting religious cult!  A “cult” is “that” religious group down the street!

    My experience with Mormons are quite extensive.  BTW, you should be a bit more charitable towards those of us not so “fortunate” as you are, living in the Great United States!  I have lived in the USA for some 20 years.  Almost all Mormons I have met and worked with fall into one of two categories: either they are very successful or they are very very successful.

    It was a Mormon family is Santa Rosa, CA who woke me up to the 9/11 issue (and why I left your land of GMO milk and fake money!).  Very caring family.  We were very good friends when I lived in Santa Rosa.  Hard working family with seven very talented children all grown up and a very caring couple for the local community, not just for Mormons.

    The rest of the Mormons I have met and worked with are what I call “Jews wanna bees”!  They just LOVE making money!  Lots of it.  Not quite the Billionaire status of the Jews, except for one whom I didn’t meet, but a lot of “cashflow” millionaires.  You can read about my interactions with Mormons in an article I wrote back in 2008 called “The Greatest Ponzi Scheme in History” (i’ll post a link as a reply to this comment).

    Community and having like-minded friends are what it will take to survive what’s coming down.  Growing one’s food is the key to surviving GD1/WW3.  On that note, I will leave our discussion.

  • Dave Whitney

    Over and over we see articles such as this listing out how bad the middle
    class has it vs the 1%ers. Yet there is little to offer as to how to reconcile
    this issue.
    That is except the Republican mantra of less regulation and taxes
    specifically targeted towards the ‘job creators’. [Not in this article, but many comments below seem to suggest the 1%ers fully deserve their multimillions.]
    Many like to blame the current administration and the vast discrepancies in
    wealth accumulation since the Great Recession. Some even point to the fact the
    Democrats held full control for a staggering two years under Obama and did
    ‘nothing’. [That IS suggested in this article competely ignoring the Reublican Tea Party obstruction of no new taxes period; even a sunset tax break ending that was designed by a REPUBLICAN.]
    The only way to increase the strength of the middle class is to raise the
    top tax rates to 50% or more.
    The 1%ers the ‘liquidate’ their gross value in order to lower their tax
    burden. One method is to pay the workers more, thereby raising their tax burden.
    In effect we all pay a little more.
    When I offer this suggestion, the response often is, very passionately,
    demanded of me is to name one country that successfully taxed its way to
    prosperity.
    The answer?

    The United States of America; 1945-1980
    Finally I laugh at the Republican troll/drones that chant the line to have a respectable salary these days; go to school and make yourself valuable in order to achieve that salary.
    Well, it’s happening; see article after article of the massive debt students leave school with and no good jobs on this site and many others. It is part of the current bubble.

  • GSOB

    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason:

    It makes government bigger.”

    – Ron Paul

  • GSOB

    “The first lesson of economics is scarcity:
    There is never enough of anything to satisfy all who want it.

    The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics.”

    ~ Thomas Sowell

  • GSOB

    The government is seen as an omniscient, benevolent institution that dictates policies in order to achieve a Pareto-optimal allocation of resources.

    The logical absurdity of libertarianism –
    partial omniscience

  • Handog

    It’s not only the oppressive Government but a new generation who views a “good job” as one that doesn’t resemble work.
    Anything productive or requires productivity or perspiration is looked down upon.

    Hoover dam could not be built today with the Government goodie bag that is readily available to whomever crosses the border or simply doesn’t want to work. There are jobs out there. Somehow it has become less shameful to take food stamps or live with your parents then to take a job considered beneath his or her skill-set.

  • AllanDale

    Adam Smith and Karl Marx agree on a lot of things, and one of them is the natural tendency of wages and prices to fall over time (due to competition and efficiency), reducing the profitability of capitalists, who consequently band together to subvert markets to maintain their original profit margins and asset valuations. The classic example is increasing the pay of serfs so the landords can raise the rent and prove the schmucks are living in a fool’s paradise.

  • Mondobeyondo

    The income inequality of the United States is beginning to resemble that of a third world country.

    Your average dictator of any impoverished nation would be delighted. They all follow the golden rule, of course. He who has the gold makes the rules.

  • David Mowers

    All this ends by lending policy. Instead of only loaning money to the wealthy we should simply begin lending money directly to the poor. All the interest should go to pay the national debt and then go towards eliminating the need for income taxes.

    All small business loans, credit lines, all college loans, mortgages home equity lines, credit cards should be folded into a new Federal Reserve bank that should have been the bankrupt and saved; Citigroup, J.P. Morgan and Bank of America.

    Taxpayers spent TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS to save these banks so that these banks could continue to defraud lower income working-class Americans by rigging lending policy in the favor of the top earners.

    Why?

    Why not spend trillions of dollars loaning money directly to people to buy new homes and cars instead?

    • danbax

      Forget about loans. Forget about making money… just let people live in a reasonable sized house, grow their own food, and leave people alone

      • David Mowers

        Right so give the entire nation to the wealthy and leave everyone else to live a Neolithic lifestyle.

  • blubal jim

    They almost have us all where they want us. Batten down the hatches and lock n load!

  • old fart

    I cant really feel sorry for quite a few of the young families and College Students as they have either not voted or are brainwashed to 30 second Commercials on the media and voted to slick politicial commercials Like Hope and Change, Freedom in not free and theyseem to fall for anything they hear on media and keep election the ones who want to destroy the nation and become Socialist/ Communist They are now reaping what they have sowed along with the rest of the nation

    • http://ttstblog.blogspot.Com/ Really20

      If only they were “Socialist/ Communist”. Socialism isn’t about free goodies for freeloaders, it is about worker ownership of the means of production and a strong labor movement. Both major parties have successfully redefined socialism as free Obamaphones and drugs, when in fact it is the polar opposite.

      We need a system in which workers directly control large corporations through worker-elected boards and works councils for major divisions of the largest enterprises. Small and midsized private business should be encouraged, aided by taking away retail lending from the big private banks and placing it in the hands of state commercial and credit banks. And of course, money should not be based on debt but should be issued as credit, free of charge by the government of the US. For much of US history (Lincoln to Nixon) such a standard was adopted, with central banks (and worse, the private banks they guarantee) playing a minimal role in currency origination. Except for a relatively small amount of inflation in the 1950s caused by pent-up demand not met during the war years, and inflation during wars, the currency was quite stable. Then in 1973, the debt based fiat system took off and inflation skyrocketed: the rest is history.

    • Schorsch

      Your nation IS already being destroyed, it’s collapsing and you make it sound like this is some “future event” to come. Believe it or not, your country NEEDS a bit of socialism in the same way as other countries who are otherwise free economies (such as Germany etc.) also added a “social aspect”. This, however, doesn’t make them “socialist” let alone communist. If you have an elite of corporates literally destroying the rest of people, you NEED “socialism” alone to protect people from the greed of the corporates. You cannot have a society being ruled/governed by entities who are profit driven!. Those entities and corporates will do anything for their PROFIT, whether they destroy the society, the middle-classs etc. they don’t care. They outsource to India while laughing at you that you just lost your job because of it. Don’t you get it WHY this country needs a bit of socialism? Don’t you see the entire system collapsing as we speak? Open your eyes! And yes, “trickle down economics”…is an illusion/lie where someone tells you that the well-being/profit of a corporate would benefit the society as a whole. This is not true since corporates are no welfare agencies, their priority is profit above everything.

  • Schorsch

    Middle-class lifestyle takes $50k/year and 72% of workers in the US make less than that. In other words: Ship the billionaires to an island and what you will have left is a 3rld world country with poor people. The wealth of Apple or any random CEO won’t stop the collapse of this hideous system.

  • GSOB

    …we all have a stake in the integrity of the Constitution and its procedural protections for taxpayers…

    • Halloween

      Leftism is like a sickness when it can’t reason intelligently, or answer honest questions, but instead goes on squawking about something else. Bottom line, not interested in truth.

      Proverbs 18:2

  • GSOB

    Along with the ACA implementations, health care will soar to a great extent after the 2016 election of the POTUS.

  • Thomas D Guastavino

    Trying to raise the living standards of a worker simply by raising the minimum raise reminds me the donkey who is motivated to move forward, and thinks it is making progress, by having a carrot tied to its neck. The minimum wage debate clearly has become more political then economic. An after the fact indexing to inflation is the logical solution.

  • Bob

    The end is near.

  • DB200

    Michael writes: “The way that our economy is structured now, both parents usually have to work as hard as they can just to pay the bills.”

    This is by design and no coincidence. That way mom and dad won’t be able to do the raising of the children.

    That part is filled in by the government controlled schools, the computer games, the tv stations and more of that kind of nonsense. And what does it do with the kids?

    I will not provide the answer, you may do that yourself.

  • Mondobeyondo

    Read the last five verses of Deuteronomy 31, and all of Deuteronomy 32.

    The last five verses of Deuteronomy 31 set the context for the next chapter. It is a song by Moses, to the people of Israel.

    It is also a prophecy, for our time, America in 2014.

    Read especially Deuteronomy 32: 10-26.

    It describes America, from its humble beginnings in the wilderness, to its possible future.

    • DB200

      Mondo,

      You may be right about the patchwork. It takes more than a lifetime to understand the Bible completely.

      For instance, sink holes were already there in Moses time. Read Numeri 16: 30-33

      To come back to Deuteronomy 32, the people of Israel deny this song of Moses in Joshua 24 and promise to follow God and keep his laws. Joshua warns them about the consequences of going their own way in Joshua 23 and this chapter makes good reading. All this is in line with Deuteronomy 32.

  • Mondobeyondo

    For those who didn’t get my previous missive (gasp!!) –
    Read Deuteronomy chapter 32.
    It pertains to America.
    ———–
    The reason why many people don’t understand the Bible, is because it’s a “patchwork” book. Because it was not written by a single author, people get confused by reading it from beginning to end.

    Imagine a book written by William Shakespeare, John Lennon, Albert Einstein, Dr. Seuss, Danielle Steele and John Grisham all in one volume. That is basically what the Bible is. Only its authors were even more wise and well known than those I listed.

    Okay, sermon over!

    • Mike

      The bible, fiction at it’s best.

      • Mondobeyondo

        It’s not fiction if/when it actually comes to pass…

        • Mike

          Guess you really don’t believe it when you use the word “if”. Also I could write that someday the sun will explode. When it does am I a prophet just because I wrote it?

          • Halloween

            If you knew anything about God, the Universe and Life, you wouldn’t be spouting such foolishness. Such talk is not even a dime a dozen.

            You don’t need to come here pushing your extreme ignorance on people who are seeking mature, intelligent conversation.

          • Mike

            Yet it’s ok for you to spout your point of view? Spoken like a true understanding Christian. If you had one active brain cell you would be able to reason why god was really created by man.

          • jakartaman

            I am done with this site – on hold?????

          • Mike

            See ya sunshine.

      • Halloween

        You display extreme ignorance. Go do your homework, then come back when you know anything about life.

        • Mike

          Let me make sure I’ve got this straight. A book written by several dozen authors over a few hundred years about a force that hasn’t been seen or heard from in at least 2000 years. If I made a religion out of J.R.R. Tolkien’s books I would be way ahead of you guys! I mean at the very least I would have one author! No go back to cowering from the big bad sky god punishing you if you are a bad little human. I’ll be off living life.

  • Malcolm Reynolds

    the typical communist democrat lie that somehow a person who spent no time sitting in a classroom is equal to someone that does things they cant do.

  • frank1569

    Minor correction:

    Average hours worked is 35/week. That’s 1,750 hours/year. At $10/hour, that’s $17,500/year, not $20K. Minus 15% taxes for a net of: $14,875.

    Perspective: cost of raising one child to age 18: $20K/year.

    Wisconsin Department of Labor: ‘There is no evidence that the minimum wage isn’t a living wage.’ 1,750 hrs at $7.35 = $12,860, $10,800 net.

    Where, in America, can anybody live on that?

  • Malcolm Reynolds

    congratulations on being a low-info communist.
    shareholders take on risk by investing their money into a company so that said company has the money to bring their product to market. So yea, they really do create value, schmuck.

    • http://ttstblog.blogspot.Com/ Really20

      I said they don’t create value on their own. They should be compensated for the money they provided, not for eternity.

      • Malcolm Reynolds

        And you’d still be wrong. They help the business create the value in the first place and they don’t get compensated for eternity unless they own it for eternity.

        They should be compensated for the money they provided, not for eternity.
        Sorta like union and public pensions, huh. You know, compensated for life with money they didn’t earn, for value they didn’t provide.

        • http://ttstblog.blogspot.Com/ Really20

          “And you’d still be wrong. They help the business create the value in
          the first place and they don’t get compensated for eternity unless they
          own shares for eternity. But then there’s always death, so…”

          The only problem is that shares last eternally. If share lifespan were limited to a period of years, then your problem would be resolved.

          “Sorta like union and public pensions, huh. You know, compensated for life with money they didn’t earn, for value they didn’t provide.”

          I never made any comment on public pensions. I spoke only of shareholders taking excessive amounts. If public pensions are excessive and bloated, which they are, then that is a separate issue.

        • Juan Martinez

          The thing is that with unions, you are not paying for it. The other members are paying for it. With public pensions, it is a perk of the job. Take away the pensions and see what happens to the quality of applicants you get.

  • Mike

    Yea gravity is caused by the spinning of the earth. Where is my Nobel prize? Oh you think it’s some super being that does it? What a laugh.

  • erin111

    ….. and Romney dares to say that 47% does not pay tax?! Republicans call those people… lazy! How can anybody imagine to pay taxes from $40k when you have a family!

  • erin111

    Americans are exploited by corporations, who unilaterally dictate the height of the pay for the workers. No market economy here just corporate decision. Corporations send their people (GOP) to the government. Government makes laws that favor only corporations and the rich. GOP brainwashes everybody that only lazy and blacks do not vote for them. Many gullible people believe them. They work such a long hours to survive that they have no time to give it a thought. If you think it through, you will see that only very rich or very stupid vote for GOP.

  • David Boone

    We can fix it. Don’t laugh, it’s called the FairTax(R).

  • kattrina hoffmann

    That only works for the suckers that work for a living. Not for the ones that earn their money by popping our babies by different daddy’s. They make a LOT more money. They eat better, live better, cloth better and drive better. So keep it up all you caring people. Someone has to pay for those kinds.

  • http://politicalstickers.net/ FrankHerbert

    those in power DON’T want the little guy to make any progress. it’s much easier to control a population worried about it’s own survival than a population that is prospering

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